Thuderbird Guest Book Comments

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(NOTE: effective 1 Oct 1999, Thunderbird Guest Comments are included with 303rd Guest Comments)

Nancy Ferris Huggins nancyh@us.net (18 Sep 99) Hi Gary -- my brother and I are sitting here at his house in Gilbert, AZ discussing the aviation art of Keith Ferris and our memories. That's what brought us to you. Our memory of the great Thunderbird. We enjoyed the site. Keep up the great work and we will be in touch again soon.

philipper ROUYER philipperouyer@hotmail.com (17 Sep 99) I would like to compliment the authors of this site: this is true history, with authentic source documents. As an historian of microfilm I was interrested by the reproduction of the V- Mail. Unfortunately the document is barely legible. How is it possible to get a better image? I guess there are lots of V- Mail available in the US, both in archives and antique shops, but I am living in France... Philippe Rouyer, PhD ROUEN, FRANCE
[I improved the scan and included the envelope. Look for it here.]

Steve Hanson stephenh@acmc.com (8 Sep 99) Great B-17 site. A real tribute to your father and the Thunderbird crew! Steve Hanson, CAPT, USNR,(ret)

Kenneth Greber tweny2mag@aol.com (8 Sep 99) Just a word of thanks from someone who spent the WW2 war years as a youngster listening all about the war on the radio, and reading about it in the newspaper. I'm a huge fan of WW2 memorabilia. Love the airplanes. As a matter of fact I just went to an air show yesterday at Chesterfield Airport and seen some WW2 aircraft. Made me feel proud to be an American. We owe you WW2 vets a lot. I myself joined the navy when I was 20 and retired a chief petty officer being a Korean and Vietnam vet in 1968. Neither one of them came even close to what you guys went through. Many thanks again from an old retired CPO. Wishing the best of health and a long life, Ken Greber (Better known as Wild Horse my first 12 years in the Navy.)

Richard L. Meier donna_meier@ccgate.depuy.com (2 Sep 99) (family of a 303rd Member) Thank you for putting this together. My father flew the Thunderbird and was also commissioned to Ain't Misbehavin B-17 during the war. Although I do not have any photos or articles regarding his missions, my dad passed away a few years ago and this was a pleasure to find regarding just one more piece of his life.

Jack Smith (28 Aug 99) I am a B-17 fan from way back. Enjoyed the site. Thanks

Euan Campbell e96eac@tay.ac.uk (13 Aug 99) Seems to be a nicely constructed site. Is the Thunderbird in this webpage the same as the one flying today? Thanks for any reply.
[No, the original one was scrapped in 1945]

Stacey Cougar417@aol.com (8 Aug 99) (family of a 303rd Member) I stopped in to see the listing of my grandfather 1Lt Frederick Amon Stewart, on of the last to fly the Thunderbird. I've seen the plane at the Smithsonian and the pictures done by Keith Ferris. This is a wonderful site!

Charles Creely creel135@aol.com (1 Aug 99) Great website and tribute to your father..... I'm a thirty year old Air Force Pilot who loves old aircraft and pictures... Thank for the wonderful site..... Please let me if you know where I can find reproductions of aviation art/signs.... Thank You, Charles

John Cryer teecee@rochelle.net (1 Aug 99) I was looking for B17 crews from WW2, and found your website. I was a pilot with the 15th. Air Force flying the B17. What a great airplane. Hope you like to hear from other B17 combat flyers. Enjoyed your web very much, please keep it up, and encourage others to join in.

Malik Hansen malik_hansen@hotmail.com (31 Jul 99) I saw Thunderbird live as she passed through Narsarsuaq, Greenland (former BW-1) in August 1987. I think I used a roll of film. Some of the photos can be seen at my homepage http://www.greenweb.gl/malik. Malik Hansen, Greenland

Roger Lustenberger (30 Jul 99) This Web Page is great. Although I am only 14. I visited this website in order to find more about the B-17 Flying Fortress. Thanks for creating this site

Jim Megee jmegee57@hotmail.com (24 Jul 99) We have only had the internet for a couple a weeks and I have wanted to see if I could find anything on the Thunderbird. I do know Walt Hein who was one of the original crew. I think you have done a nice job on your web site. I will have to tell Walt that I saw him on your site. Thanks for the journal, now I can read about some of the missions he was on. Thanks again.

Kenneth S. Van Wickler, Lt Col, USAF kenneth.vanwickler@randolph.af.mil (20 Jul 99) Gary, Found your site looking for B-17 nose art for my screen- saver. Wonderful work! Long live the Thunderbird saga! I've loved the Keith Ferris depiction of your Dad's a/c and own a signed copy of the lithograph. I also did a 1/48th scale model of her and left it at my school ROTC building (20 years ago -- no idea where it wound up!), but I'd never read the crew's story, so thanks! "Vee Dub"

Carol J. Bowman cbowman@frii.com (13 Jul 99) My dad, Eugene F. Bowman, was top-turret gunner as well as flight engineer in the 336th BS and was stationed at Horham in 1944/45. I think his crew went through three B-17s, two of which were named the "Heavy Date" and the "I Dood It." There is a picture of him in "Contrails" standing at the end of the chow line on the Combat Mess page (lower right corner). The old warrior will be 82 years old on August 3, 1999, and still lives in Wichita Falls, TX, where he retired from the AF at Sheppard AFB in 1965. Needless to say, I am very proud of him. No need to respond to this. I just wanted to touch base and say "hi."

Marc Sarchet marvic@gateway.net (10 Jul 99) Gary, Great page! My father is a member (and served in during WW II) of the Eighth Air Force Historical Society and I found your URL in their magazine. What a great site and a great story! I am presently a Lt Col in the USAF and thus, am very grateful to these men that served and even more astonished that not one man died in this aircraft! What a remarkable story!

Dale Jensen dkckjen@juno.com (5 Jul 99) Did "Thunderbird" fly without cheek guns installed during the final months of the war? I recall seeing a photo of her in a magazine years ago and I think there was no cheek gun. I want to build a model of her using the decals I still have from the Visible B-17 kit and want to be as accurate as possible. Also, did the 303rd experiment with removing chin and/or ball turrets on any aircraft like some other units did towards the end?

Ron Bryant Augsburg55@AOL.COM (5 Jul 99) First of all, I would like to thank you for your service to our country. Those of us in generations following yours owe you all a great deal. I came upon your site via a web search on Augsburg,Germany.I was stationed there with the Army Security Agency in the late '70's to early '80's and was interested in finding information on bombing targets in that area in WWII. Enjoyed the visit to your site! Regards, Ron Bryant

Richard King Rich.King@landsmand.com (19 Jun 99) I'm a British soldier currently serving at RAF Brampton, England. Recently attended a USAF "WWII" Hangar Dance at RAF Molesworth, with a group of friends, where everyone was dressed in 8th AAF uniforms. First prize in the raffle was a print of the Smithsonian painting, signed by the artist and the ball gunner (Walt?), who were present. Thought I'd look up some of the background to the station and the 303rd. Linked in from the 303rd's homepage. A fine site and a fitting tribute, I shall visit again.

Doris Swihart nox2525@montana.com (10 Jun 99) I'm sorry to bother you. I was looking through for the last name of Elliot... My real father had the last name of Elliot, according to my mom. I was born in Schweinfurt in 1949 and was hoping to find some reference on him. Thank you very much!

Mark Graves gravesms@get.net (2 Jun 99) I wad born in 1951 but, for some unknown reason I've always loved the B-17, ever since I first saw 12 O'Clock High. Something about the lines of the plane and the sound of the sound of the engines gives me goose bumps. I have always marveled at battle photos of these birds and how they often returned from a mission when they shouldn't even have been able to stay in the air. I just like reading about and looking at them.

Pete Harvey tbirdpub@aol.com (2 Jun 99) Hi, guys. nice site. I've just opened up an American style pub here in the UK called 'The Thunderbird Saloon' I got your address from a USAF chap working over here. Make sure you come for a drink. Pete.

Robert A Rettinhouse bobrett@mediaone.net (31 May 99) (303rd BGA Member) This was interesting as I was the tail gunner on both the February 3, 1944 and May 22, 1944 missions. February with your dad Vern Moncur, and May with Ed Assenheimer. You are really doing a good job on both sites.

Jerry Ramsay ramjetden@aol.com (27 May 99) I was reading the mission profiles, what happened on the midair collision? The B-17 is my favorite airplane. I wish Ii had been in the Air Force (Air Corps) during its run.
[Minor damage and both planes returned safely.]

Airman Clint J. Ruggles cjruggles@le.usaf.org (17 May 99) It's nice to see enthusiasts of WW2 memorabilia and crewmembers still in action. I am a fan of all Veterans especially those in the same branch as I. Aim High!! Clinton James Ruggles, Airman/ USAF Law Enforcement,Aim High

Randal W McFarlane pasadena@powerup.com.au (16 May 99) Congratulations on very good site and to the preservation of our history. Keep up the good work. My father-in-law, Ed Potocki, served as a Flight Engineer on B-17s (93rd BG) in North Africa and Italy until he was severly wounded (cannon shell from an attacking Bf 109 hit his turret) and repatriated home. We would love to see a B-17 visit us here in Australia. Last known flight was by French survey B-17 in 1960's. Could it have been Lone Star's Thunderbird? I own and fly a number of warbirds (just purchased a Grumman TBM Avenger and flew her from New Zealand to Australia)

Joe Cappucci joecappucci@prodigy.net (15 May 99) (303rd BGA Member) I'm a Thunderbird Crew Member. Tell me where to send the few photos I have. You people have done one hell of a job on this site. Thank You

American Veteran Search Rich@VETERANSEARCH.com (14 May 99) American Veteran Search, @ www.VETERANSEARCH.com, is a new web-site for locating your Service Buddies. We have one of the Largest Data Bases on the internet today ! Find your Buddies Today ! Data base is updated daily and growing fast. Also Guestbook / Message board and many interesting, and useful Veteran Related links for your enjoyment... "If were All here, We will All find each other"... "WELCOME HOME TO ALL VETERANS"..."Walk in Peace"...Rich & Jack , AVS

Daniel F. Stockinger stock@sparc.isl.net (20 Apr 99) Hi there, I'm a UH-1,bell 206 and a AH-1 Helicopter pilot. I am fascinated with the fighting men and the aircraft of WW2. I understand that this was not a war that they did not enjoy but it was a mission that had to be accomplished and these brave airman performed that duty. When I was in 8th grade, I had a history teacher who was a bomber pilot during WW2. I found that out as he was leaving the last day of the school year. I don't know if he is still alive, but today , if I was to see him, I would thank him for a job well done. The men who performed aviation duties have my greatest respect, for they are the forefathers of aviation combat. Also, I'm fond of the B-17.

Richard F. Scotti Fudgeman51@AOL.COM (20 Apr 99) You have a very nice site, if you have an E-mailing list of events (etc) put me on it! Thanks for the visit and keep up the good work. PS. I love the PX!!!

William C. Gross Wc144@aol.com (18 Apr 99) I received the newsletter from the Virginia Chapter of the 8th Air Force Historical Society. I am a Korean AF veteran. A radio mechanice in Korea 1951-52 on (A) B-26's with the 13th Bomb Sqdn, 3rd Bomb Group. Great site. I enjoy just looking. It is all very interesting.

Robert A. Rowe alonzo75@ij.net (6 Apr 99) (303rd BGA Member) This information is all new to me. I just stand back and see the excitement that it has created and marvel at the interest that people show when it is mentioned.

Mark Berning pezboy100@hotmail.com (30 Mar 99) This is a very neat page about the WWII fighter planes.

Pat McCabe paddymac@alaska.net (27 Mar 99) Looking for a picture of the Eighth Air Force patch. my father flew in the 452nd BG, 728th Sq. He passed away 13 years ago and I have purchased an A-2 bomber jacket and I'm going to have my daughter paint the nose air from the plane my father piloted. "MIASIS DRAGON". I'm doing the patches. I have the Group and Squadron patches done. I can't find the wing patch (45th BW) I think.

Ronald G. Lucas lucasenterprise@webtv.net (17 Mar 99) Member of 100thBG(H) Association. Father TTG on Sassy Lassy (349TH SQDN) lost on 8-5-44 at Magdeberg. Always interested in 17s. Excellent site... keep up the tradition and the good work. If you have any suggestions on how I could find hospital records or flack unit records for Germany. I would appreciate hearing. Thanks!

Vickie Campbell vjcamp@aol.com (07 Mar 99) Hi Gary, Just stopped in to see what a great job you've done! I'm very impressed! I'll be in Utah on March 18 to visit g-ma Hope to see you, love Vic

Anders Johansson anders.johansson@mbox420.swipnet.se (4 Mar 99) Intresting photos of the Thunderbird

Steve Martin thatslife@inficad.com (4 Mar 99) I really enjoyed your page. It's nice to see when someone remembers and pays tribute to all the men who served this country. I have been to many museums and love it when there is a B-17 there. Thanks for putting the time and effort into this page.

Maurice J. Paulk mjpmtman@kdsi.net (2 Mar 99) She was fine sight!! Saw her quite often. Sure brings back memories. You have done a good job on both sites. Sgt A/C Supply - 444th Sub Depot

Robert "TONG" Hicks rshyx@hotmail.com (27 Feb 99) A great tribute to a great man. Salute, Cmd. TONG

Barry McKinnis bmckinnis@charleswalkerna.cwix.com (25 Feb 99) My Father was a nose-gunner/navigator on the Little Butch, was stationed in England. He flew in the first daylight bombing run over Berlin.

Steve Proffitt auctionlaw@aol.com (25 Feb 99) You've done an outstanding job with this compilation. My dad, 2Lt. John S. Proffitt, Jr. was the pilot of Lucille (named for my mother). He has a beautiful picture of Thunderbird hanging in his home, and he is very proud to have served in the 303rd Bomb Group. Congratulations on your excellent work, and may God Bless You and Your Family.

Ken Crookston (24 Feb 99) Neat web site; excellent information for a WWII buff.

Jorge Gracia jgraciar@retemail.es (23 Feb 99) I was in Oshkosh '98 show and I visited inside and outside the B-17 Thunderbird. It was really a dream. Fantastic!!! Wonderful!!! Best regards.

Jeanette horsepoor@jps.net (22 Feb 99) Just wanted to congratulate you on a web site well done! My Dad was a flight engineer on a B-17 named the True Love stationed at Knettishall with the 388th. In 1997 he had open heart surgery and I wanted to do something special for him. Anyone can go to the store and buy a gift for their Dad. I chose to honor my Dad by searching for his old crew and any buddies. I am happy to report that I found all the crew except for the tail gunner, even found some of the ground crew! Three were deceased. I took some fabric that had B-17s and fighter planes on it and covered an album. I ordered two brass engraved name plates for the front -THE CREW OF THE TRUE LOVE and my Dad's name. Each of the crew members or their families contributed photos and stories to the scrapbook. This last Christmas I gave it to my Dad. He was deeply touched and amazed that once again the crew pulled together to complete a mission. We both have joined the 388th bomb group association. If we, the descendants of the veterans, do not write down the memories/stories, soon they will be lost. What you read in history books is only a part of the war. What we learn from our fathers is the human side, the side rarely talked about. KEEP'EM FLYING!!!

Joe Shipley stldrawer@aol.com (20 Feb 99) What a great tribute to your dad! I was 12 when war ended. I have been interested in airplanes since then. My wife and I visited The American Air Museum in England at Duxford which honors the American airmen who lost their lives in WWII. Thanks for keeping this history where people can see it.

Mike Carter mhcarter@yahoo.com (16 Feb 99) My father-in-law is Jack A. Lemley. I met and married his daughter after his death; I'm sorry I never had the opportunity to meet him. We visited the 8th Air Force Museum in Savannah on February 14, and were also there for the grand opening three years ago, along with his widow, Bernice. She is now in a nursing home in Seminole, OK. The librarian at the museum suggested the internet, which is how I found this site. My wife, Linda, plans to provide the museum with details on his service. I have long been interested in the air war in Europe and the B-17 in particular, so I'm very pleased to learn more about Mr. Lemley's service.

Al Bishop abishop3@bellsouth.net (15 Feb 99) Great site.. wish the old crew the best from a old R/O from the 15th AAF. Also 18 missions on B-17s.

Gary D. Jacobs usnmcb@texas.net (14 Feb 99) Just browsing. WWII buff of sorts. I found your site interesting, especially since I've seen your bird's nose art for decades and never had the knowledge to appreciate its unique place in history. Thank you for the information.

Charles Cicio (12 Feb 99) I am new to the web. Where can I find information on RAF Alconbury and RAF Kimbolton like I see on RAF Molesworth. I was stationed at Alconbury as a firefighter 1977-1981 and lived in Stowlonga near Kimbolton. Thanks in advance. [Try the AltaVista Search engine.]

Ronald Elmer Schwartz (11 Feb 99) A friend was a crewman on the plane.

Dale Bergren dbergren@creighton.edu (08 Feb 99) I very much appreciate your web site and what you have done to honor your Dad and the others gave us what we have today. My father was a ball turret gunner on Lucious Lady of the 447th. I had just found Troy Lehman's tribute to the B-17 where he had a section for veterans to submit their experiences. I had called my father to ask what he might like to submit. He become ill shortly after and passed away. This was 2 years ago. Troy Lehman's web page rather oddly disappeared at the same time. However I am very glad to see your web site. I certainly wish as do you that I could share it but never the less enjoyed it.

Gene Girman Gcgirman@aol.com (04 Feb 99) Gary, I was just nosing around. I enjoy visiting this site. You do a good job of keeping it up to date.

James P Hibbeler Sr (30 Jan 99) Thanks crew for helping America in a time of need!

MSGT Gordon C. Severud gcsb25@mw.sisna.com (21 Jan 99) This Thunderbird story is one of the best account's of what the Combat Crew's went through in WW II. I flew a combat tour in B-25's in 1944 with the 340th Bomb Group, 489th Bomb Sqdn. I retired from the United States Air Force in 1964 with over 20 years Service. Crew position Engineer Gunner, 55 Missions. Went through Jefferson Barracks Basic in June-July 1942. AM school Lincoln. Neb. B-25 Factory school Inglewood. California. Aerial Gunnery school at Tyndall Field. Florida in Feb-Mar 1943. If anyone remembers serving with me, I would surely like to hear from them. Thanks for a story WELL DONE.....

David L. Hilliard hillman@netins.net (18 Jan 99) My dad flew in B17 and later in B19. He was station in the south Pacific. Dad didn't talk to much about the war but he did talk a lot about the planes and the crews he flew with. Is there any place that I can go on the internet to fined more about dad and the men and planes he was with. His name was Edward A. Hilliard. At one time he flew in a plane called There She Blows.

Andy Wilson andrew.wilson@eurocontrol.be (17 Jan 99) Fascinating piece of history. For several years I have been researching the "Big Week" (Feb 20th - 25th '44) missions. I have all the 8th's Group Mission Reports and all MACR's. However, yours is the REAL story. Excellent.

Robert K. Sinclair Sr. junkyard55@hotmail.com (17 Jan 99) Just working on a model of a B-17G. Have not built a model in many years, quality? I'm enjoying anyway. Also a cousin of mine, Dan Mangan went down over Belgium, I believe. I am told he was a B-17 pilot & that he went down on his 36th mission. He was from Spokane area.I was told that after your 36th mission you got a trip stateside. His last trip was not with his usual crew, and a pilot was needed & he was anxious for his 36th outing. All of this is hearsay from the family grapevine. Also I am retired from 34yrs of svc. with United Airlines as a mechanic. I worked in plane overhaul tooling support & repair. A friend of mine is still with UAL as an inspector, his name is Mike Repas. Mike is still in SFO. A few months back I spoke with him. He said that during a training trip to Boeing in Seattle that he got some L.H. seat time in on a "Cheyenne" version of a B-17. If you know of this crafts location I would appreciate a reply. Apparently this version was with a turret mod that was a UAL product. Thank you, Bob Sinclair
[Your cousin, Lt Daniel J. Mangan, from Spokane, Washington, was a Pilot with the 95th Bomb Group at Horham, England. His B-17G To Hell and Glory #42-38123 95th BG(H)/334th BS (Letter codes BG-E) was shot down on 23 June 1944 and crashed at Maubeuge, France. (2 KIA, 3 POW and 5 Evaded capture). The Pilot, Lt Mangan was one of the two KIAs. The tail guns of some of the later B-17G models were modified at the UAL operated, Cheyenne Modification Center, Wyoming. The tail gunner field of fire was widened and the gunner was given a new reflector gun sight. The improved tail position was named the "Cheyenne Tail Turret". The change shortened the length of the B-17G by five inches. I have no way of knowing what still flying B-17 that your friend Mike Repas had an opportunity to make a flight. The Museum of Flight at the Seattle Boeing factory has a flyable B-17 and it might have been this aircraft. Harry D. Gobrecht, President and Historian 303rd BG(H) Association]

Giff Nickol giff@bcpl.net (16 Jan 99) I was searching, through infoseek, for a copy of Keith Ferris' print "Rauhbautz, Marie, Special Delivery, and Bonnie B" (which, as you may know, shows the reverse view of his Thunderbird mural at the NASM), and came upon your beautiful web site. Excellent work! As a B-17 buff, I have long been fascinated with the story of Thunderbird, and truly appreciate your going to the time and trouble to maintain this site. Like you, I am a Baby Boomer, born in '53, and the older I get, the greater appreciation I have for the sacrifices those of our parents' generation made for us. Quite literally, they saved the world, and their role in history will never be forgotten as long as folks like you keep their story alive. Thank you very much!

Gary Lesniewski gary@kvne.com (16 Jan 99) I have been working on a web site telling the story of my father-in-law who was an 8th Air Force B-17 pilot shot down over Germany and became a POW for 18 months. The site is located at: http://stalag.webjump.com/ It includes his story as well as photographs and links.

Bill Hoyt hoytwma2@msn.com (06 Jan 99) Dad was with the 360th BS. On the 25th mission sign at the officer's club, his name is sixth in the first column. Otis A Hoyt ! Thanks hope to hear from you.

Ken MacDermid kmacd35aps@aol.com (02 Jan 99) I'm an associate member, too young to be in WW2, but made it in the Korean conflict. I have a friend who lost his brother in an early raid (about "43). He was a navigator and was lost in a collision with another B17 in a raid over Germany. His name is Lt. Gene Shipp. If you know anyone who may have known him, please let me know. His brother was a B29 pilot, and flew with the air lift, was in the Korean thing and Vietnam also, retired a Bird Col. and lives here in F. Myers, FL. Any info would would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Alexander mikealex@bellsouth.net (02 Jan 99) I like your site as I have recently been searching for B-17 information. I tried to go to the link for Nose Art but got an error message. Has the site moved or do you have to be on AOL to get to it? I like your site very much.
[Looks like that link is dead....]

William F Goudy dkgward@aol.com (25 Dec 98) I was in the 303rd 359th squadron. I am at my daughter's for Christmas and brought the letter concerning the Oklahoma City reunion for 1999. The Web site address was included in the letter and we wanted to see the information provided on your web page. It was interesting and thank you very much. Happy Holiday.

Tom Hillary THillary@cistercian.org I am the son of Lt Jack R. Hillary, pilot of Thunderbird's 70th mission (the Keith Ferris mural) My dad's radar man, Gene Girman, told me of this web site. I find it fascinating and am most appreciative of your effort. My dad was shot down Aug 24, 1944, and only Mr. Girman and one other crew member survived.I am traveling to Molesworth, England, this Christmas to view the airbase and museum. Again, thanks. Tom Hillary 12/22/98

Jeanette horsepoor@jps.net I can tell you did a lot of research and you are to be congratulated on that. I know what long, hard, work that is as I have searched for the B-17 crew my father flew with. I found all but one, the tail gunner. Three are deceased, but their relatives and the other crew members contributed to a scrapbook that I am doing for my father. My father flew with the 388th as a flight engineer stationed at Knettishall. Enjoyed your site!

Mike Slate mslate@westco.net I really like your site. I have been reading About ww2 and the eighth air force for about 15 years. You guys are my heros! Some gave some, some gave all! I respect what you guys did. I really mean that! So you have a great Day, and Merry Xmas to all!

Lt Col Dan Drejza danbarbd@sprynet.com I was looking for anecdotes and historical info on the 11 Bomb Group stationed at Hickam Field the day of the Japanese attack on Oahu. The Group flew B-17s and B-24s through WWII in the Pacific. The 11th Bomb Group Association is having their last reunion banquet at Hickam on the 8th of December. I'm emcee for the banquet. they'll be disbanding after this visit due to the progressive age of their members.

Terry C. Ashburn PECKERWOOD_@excite.com Gary, I can not tell you just how excited I am to find all these links for B-17s on the internet! I am new to the net but I just can not believe the world it opens up to peoples particular interests. I have always loved the Fortress but never was able to meet anybody that shared the same interest. Most people find it to be "geeky" if you know what I mean. At the St Louis County MO. airshow this year I was able to tour the Thunderbird! It was the neatest B-17 experience I have had so far. I took some wonderful pictures of features in the plane I have never been to get before, especially the cockpit area. I have never been that close to the yoke of a Fort! I wanted to chat with all the crew and support personnel but they were so busy I thought I might hinder them from their duties. One lady was particularly helpful. Don't know her name but she had black hair and tall. By the way I have been searching everywhere to find some dimensions for a drawing of a model F I am working on.

Eric McLeod esmcleod@juno.com My father, Harry McLeod, was a bombardier/navigator in the 303rd BG in 1943-44(?) and flew 36 missions mostly in a B-17G named Daddy's Delight. I've seen pictures of him and the crew standing at the nose of the aircraft. I was searching the 303rd web site looking for pictures of Dad when I linked to your web page. We lost Dad to cancer on October 29, 1998. Thanks for the great pix of a great aircraft. Dad had a nice photo/poster of the T-Bird hanging in his den. I'd be interested in info on where to get one. Any ideas?

Spencer, Hill Aerospace Museum Beautiful, our museum is the home of Short Bier. It is vital that the history of WWII be preserved and related to the people of this nation. Keep up the good work.

Jerry Ketron J_KETRON@HOTMAIL.COM Dad flew on the Knockout Dropper 8th Air Force, 303rd B.G. His name was Frank M. Ketron. He was the top turret gunner and flew 25 missions. He also received the DFC. Dad instilled a love of airplanes in me and in recent years began talking a lot about the war. He went to a few of the reunions for the "Hell's Angels". Unfortunately, we lost Dad on Sept. 10,1997. Would love to hear back from you or anyone else regarding the B-17s.

Dave Combs DECombsI@ix.netcom.com I guess I have another link for you. I received a link to your site from a friend of mine in Washington state. He is the son of the tailgunner of my dad's crew. I am his eldest son. I have a site I put for the surviving members to visit. I've received a few visits from these old guys and comments to boot. Like your dad, my dad passed some years ago. The site address is: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/9078/squarej_pgone.html

Robert Parish I would like to see if I could contact my friends from the war. I was stationed on the War Ship the SS Henry Miller. We were brought to the site of D day bringing in and out supplies. It was going on while we were on our way to France.

Steven R. Nordby snordby@willmar.com Just wanted to say that you have a great web site. I am a 38 year old navy brat and have always been interested in history, especially military history. Many years ago I purchased a print at the Air Force Museum in Dayton which I think depicts the final mission of Ol Thunderbird. And a couple of years ago I tracked down the tail gunner Ernie CoFrances and had him sign it for me. Also saw the B-17 painted up as Ol Thunderbird at Oshkosh 2 summers ago. Keep up the good work...

John J. Nicastro nicastro@modex.com ( 2nd Lt 358th Sq Nav 11/44 to 3/45) This is a great web site. Thanks for all your work in getting it on line. I'll be contacting my friends about it. Happy Holiday Season.

William E Eisenhart eisencol@aol.com As a 23 month member of the 359th BS. I was interested to see whether I had flown the Bird on any of her missions. I did not see my name listed. I'm sure that I must have flown her on either a test hop or a training Mission during that time frame. Do the records reflect the training/etc mission? This is a great web site for all to see. Thanks a million !!!!
[The records only show flights that were missions, aborts or where something unusual happened such as the crash landing. Vern Moncur's log book shows 6 additional flights that there is no record of. Surely there were many others.]

Dan West DannyWest@webtv.net Great site. I wish that there were more like it. A friend of mine S/Sgt Wesley F. Gradeville was a crew chief assigned to the 360th BS, 303rd BG. He has told me quite a few stories about his time at Molesworth. Once again you have a Great site! Thanks..

Pat Timbers Thank you for including the flight log and journal notes of the missions. It gives a personal touch to what happened.

Mike Dennis MDennis@279AOL.com A fellow worker told me of this site. His father was 2ND LT Graham Gould. He has pictures of his crew which aren't published in any of the nose art books. He flew Thunderbird and Eight Ball with the 303RD of the 359TH Squadron.

Charles H. Stoner cstoner@terraworld.net I served with the 359th. Sqdn., was ground crew on the Duchess. Flew two missions as Flight Engineer on the crew of C. Smith, received the Purple Heart on the second.

John Beckham jbark@airmail.net Great site Gary. It really is a shame that Thunderbird and so many like her meet the demise that the did. Serve your country well, protect your crew, and always bring them home, and what do you get a trip to Kingman to get chopped up and melted down. It really is a shame that we in this country tend to destroy so much of our history, and being an aviation buff, and WWII in particular, it really hurts. I did however get a treat the other day at work. I went out to lunch (I work at Lockheed Martin building F-16's) and as I walked to the car I heard the distinctive sound of radials approaching from the north. I looked, and low and behold it was FIFI and DIAMOND LIL in formation. They made a pass down the runway, and just kept on going south. What a treat, I sure am glad that I decided to go out for lunch that day. Keep up the good work.

Rob Lace Amazing and intriguing account.You must be very proud of your father and to be associated with such events.

Pete Doak pdoak@phoenix.net Have been taking some time off, so I just today was checking up on the links on the LSFM site and noticed you had a new location. I now have the new URL update on the LSFM site Hope everything has been going well for you. I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but we have something in common. My father flew B-17s in WWII also. I don't know very much more than that (long story), but I think I'll check up on it some more. Your site, as usual looks great. See ya around, Pete Doak, CET, CNE, CNI, Associate Professor College of The Mainland, Texas City, Texas

Morton M. Moon MSargeM@aol.com Sure wish I could have a beer with Sgt Thompson at one of the pubs in Manchester, England. We worked hard and we played hard when we could get away. Mort Moon Asst crew chief, Knockout Dropper.

Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com Gary: Great site!! I wish more bomb groups had as much information available on the internet. Kevin M. Pearson, Secretary Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing 8th AFHS

Natalio Botana botana@fibertel.com.ar I am new in this internet biz but a veteran in WWII airplanes and their overall history. I greatly enjoyed visiting your page and just then realized that my joining internet is going to be not only fun but usufel. Thanks!

MAJ Fred Schwarz, IN, USAR blackcloud@compuserve.com Wonderful site! My Army Reserve Unit: Joint Reserve Intellegence Support Element-Eurasia Branch, is assigned to Ft. Sheridan, IL, but a few us conduct our drills at Selfridge ANGB just north of Detroit, MI. We just had the honor of conducting our two weeks annual training at RAF Molesworth with duty at the Joint Analysis Command. I was surprised to find a great deal of history of 303rd Bomb Group all over the inside of the JAC building - murals of 303d B-17s, photo of planes and their crews, picture of nose art etc. Also posted daily was the day's mission, for that calender day for 1943, 44, and 45, describing the target, group composition and the results. I read them daily before going to work. Out front of the building is a large sign with a side view of a B-17, the 303d emblem and the words "Might in Flight" proudly displayed. As a WWII amateur historian and model builder I was just taken in by the history of the 303rd while I spent my two weeks active duty. Posted on the first floor of the building was the Hall of Fame, which told the stories of some of the brave individuals of the 303d. One of the stories struck me very emotionally, that of fellow Detroiter SGT Joe Sawicki. SGT Sawicki was a tail gunner in 303d who got severely wounded along with the two waist gunners during a mission. One of Joe's arms was severed and his stomach sliced open, however he managed to put a parachute on each of the waist gunners and pushed them out of the stricken B-17. Unfortunately he was unable to get himself out of the aircraft and he went down with it, his body later found in the wreckage of the tail. He was to receive the Medal of Honor but the request was lost in the paper shuffle. Today I started searching to see if there was some information available on SGT Sawicki and I came across your link on Thunderbird. My quest is to find out why the SGT never was again put in for the medal he so rightfully deserves. If you have any information or suggestions on how I should go about this, your help would be greatly appreciated. You have a very nice web site here. I just put Schweinfurt Again as my PC's wallpaper. Thank you! Also, one of the restored B-17s, done to replicate Thunderbird was up here in Michigan a few weeks ago at the Selfridge Airshow. It was nice to see. One of these days I hope to finagle a ride in one of those great aircraft and maybe ..just maybe.. take the controls for a few minutes. (I got 18 F-16D missions in the backseat when I was a Ground Liaison Officer to the 127th Fighter Wing). Thank you for keeping alive the memory of these great planes and most importantly, the brave men who carried out those dangerous missions over Germany, so many years ago.

Bert Hartmann Bill_Gates@t-online.de I love this site because the B-17 is my favorite american bomber. Bert from germany. My homepage of the Luftwaffe http://members.xoom.com/luftwaffe/archiv/1939_45.htm

Andre Akkermans atas@wxs.nl A very nice webside. Thanks to men like your father we all can live in freedom. We are proud of them and will never forget.

Mike Yamada fortress17@earthlink.net Great site to honor the Crew of the Thunderbird. I appreciate seeing people keep the memory of our Veterans alive and accurate for future generations. Keep up the good work. Mike Yamada, Nine-O-Nine Flight Engineer

Gordon Walker skywalker3@shasta.com Hello Gary, Thanks for letting me share this page. I am writing a novel that has to do with the time period 1940-45 in England-Scotland and the main character in the book is a tail gunner on a B17E. I have been looking around everywhere on the net for information about WWII and found this site to be very interesting, especially with the description of the bombing runs in late 1943 and early 1944. According to the information that I have, the P51 Mustang came into play about that time as it had a much longer range that the previous fighters. So many questions to ask but I will wait and see if I get a response to this first. Thanks much.

Bob Fletcher fletch57@bellsouth.net Gary! Great web site! The reason I am writing to you is that recently I purchased all the belongings of a B-17G pilot who was shot down over Germany in Jan 1945. His plane was never found nor his body. I am now hooked on finding out all that I can about him. Believe it or not, some jerk was trying to sell all of his letters, uniforms, Bible, 5 rolls of developed film (negatives) all of his certificates working his way up from a private to a 1st LT flying a B-17G bomber over Germany. Also included in this box was his personal flight records. His name was Kenneth Delmont Hicks. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force, 1st Command, 41st Wing, 384th Group, 545th Squadron. Can you tell me how I can get to a web site that might help me out? I am a vietnam veteran of 1965 plus one additional tour in Thailand where the U.S. Air Force was bombing the hell out of the VIET CONG. Many F-105s did not return to the base just like Lt. Hicks did not return to England. I have found one of his close friends who flew 30 missions over Tokyo in 1945 and he is still living in TN. He is 80 years old and gave some info.

Morton Moon SMS Ret MSargeM@aol.com I was on the ground crew of the Knockout Dropper and budded around with Sgt Thompson. The aircraft is now in Galveston and one of these days I will visit the plane. I live in Harlingen, TX which is about 300 miles from there. You have a beautiful web site. It's too bad that Sgt Thompson passed away. He was very proud of the aircraft and ground crew. We ribbed them a lot because of the first records of the dropper.

Phil Lou etlpplu@etlxdmx.ericsson.se Good site - nice to see the personal aspects of aircraft history brought together. I've given the URL to a friend here at work; his dad flew with RAF Bomber Command and finished the war flying a Lancaster which also totalled over 100 missions so maybe it'll give him some ideas on putting a similar site together. keep it up.

Ruben Rodriguez RMR69@PRODIGY.NET B-17 is my favorite bomber of WWII and am planning to build 1/48th scale model of Thunderbird. Also, I salute all the men of our armed forces that gave of themselves so that we may have the freedom we now enjoy!!

Leslie M Hensley LUKYLES@AOL.COM My father, Joseph P. Stomiany was a B17 bombardier in WWII and was shot down coming back from the raid over Berlin. Please contact him at stomiany@aol.com

Mark C. Price Trollusmc@aol.com Great page respects for your fathers contribution and heroism -salute- semper fi.

Mary Lillian Rosier MLRosier@webtv.net Robert Lenwood Rosier, member of the first crew, is my brother-in-law. I just returned from a visit with him and his family and his daughter told me of this web site. I have printed out and plan to put in a folder for Lenwood. You have done an outstanding work that will be treasured by many. Sincere thanks for your work.

Andrea Renny andrearm@jps.net First of all, congratulations on your page, your Dad must have been really special to you and I find it touching that you paid this tribute to him. My Dad was a B-17 pilot with the 8th group. Unfortunately he passed away when I was too young to appreciate his stories, I would like to find out more about him and the 8th group. His name was William P. Renny and was born on 4th of July 1913.

Andy Bivens elcamino@ecsis.com I'm from Dyersburg, TN and I was excited to find someone that trained here . I would appreciate any pictures or stories at Dyersburg. Thanks

Douglas Eddy Deddy8630@aol.com I'm a member of the Association of Living History. We are hoping to do the living history crew impressions with Thunderbird when the aircraft is at Selfridge Air Show. One of members told us about the site, so we can get some facts on the a/c before the show. great plane and web site. Hope to see you there. By the way, I do a waist gunner impression.

David R. Berry OHBerry@aol.com OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!! Sir, My organization, the Association of Living History, has been portraying 8th AF aircrew at airshows for the past 10 years. We have had the opportunity to work with Thunderbird out of LoneStar Museum in the past. We will be with them in a few weeks at Selfridge, Michigan. One of my members just gave me the heads up on your outstanding page and I have forwarded it to all members on line. The more information we have, the better our representation of the typical crew will be. In the case of an a/c with the pedigree of THUNDERBIRD, this page is a godsend. We do not intend to portray "first person" crewmen of the crew, but being familiar with who they were and their individual stories will allow us to better represent the plane, and present the public with a more exacting history. Thank you for taking the time to prepare this material for the web.

Gary Hebbard garyh@nfld.com Just found your page a few days ago and had a quick look around. As a life-long aviation enthusiast, B-17 fan, son of a (Canadian) war vet (army), newspaper reporter and photographer and a dedicated web surfer, I intend to savor the Thunderbird experience by dropping back periodically. Keep up the good work. Gary Hebbard, St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada

John Houpt amerpatrol@aol.com World War 2 veterans are all heros!!!

Paul D. Neumann Pdneumann@juno.com I served at RAF Burtonwood with the Eighth Air Force from 18 Oct. 1943 until 5 Dec. 1945. This base was BAD #1

Don & Helen Moore HJMoore804@aol.com My uncle FE Robert L. Rosier was an original crew member of the Thunderbird. Enjoyed the web site and it's information.

Andy Claster aclaster@aol.com Thanks for putting together such a great web site. My late father, Stanley Claster, was the navigator on the William Arnold crew that flew the Thunderbird on just one mission, July 17,1944 to Jussy, France. With the help of John Surrell (the tail gunner) I am in the process of writing the history of the crew and their 35 missions with the 303rd. Let me know if you would like to receive a copy. I am planning to make a brief trip to Savannah August 24-26 to attend the last day of the 303rd reunion. I hope to meet you then.

Karl Arundale arundale@fgi.net 8thAFHS, 303rdBG, 358BS, mia, pow - Amateur radio=W9kvj Great web page.

Fred Teasdale fteas1@prodigy.net Thank You for keeping the memory alive. Thank You to all the service personnel who served our country and found themselves "in harms way." Welcome home to those that made it, and God Bless those who didn't.

Nino Guiciardi nguiciar@salsgiver.com I am an ex-prisoner of war who was shot down on my 9th mission on Nov. 2 as a bombardier on the 8-BALL-III. My home page on the internet: http://www.salsgiver.com/people/nguiciar

F.X. O'Brien Obart1@erols.com I just found the 303rd Group site yesterday and continue to be amazed by the detail provided. My Dad was Ssgt. William J. O'Brien. Several of his missions were done on Thunderbird and the plane was a regular feature of his "There I was..." stories. When I found his crew list I realied that I recognized eight of the ten names posted from his tales! Sadly, Dad passed away in 1983 leaving behind myself, three other sons, a daughter and Mom. Finding this site has allowed me to revisit some of his memories of those turbulent years. I have a fair amount of material (photos, skectches, etc.) Dad left behind and would be willing to provide copies if you'd like. His regular crew was Harding's Bandits which usually crewed Daddy's Delight, tail number 944. I have a great shot of Dad and my Uncle Jack (a footslogger also stationed in the UK at the time) standing beneath the ship's nose art. I had the photo professionally restored and the results were outstanding. If there are any surviving members of the crew I'd love to here from you just to say hi. I'd like to express my profound apprciation to this organization for the fine work which has gone into the creation of this valuable historic record.

John F. Newman belle@fone.net Gary, I am one of the few crewmen that flew in replacement positions. I came to the 303rd. from the 92nd where I was a member of the YB40 experiment. I arrived with the Dakota Demon. Records from Harry Gobrecht shows that I flew on the January 29,1944 mission with VL Moncur as tail gunner. I read the record of that mission and realized I had replaced the regular Thunderbird gunner. I think I flew 18 missions with the 303rd, with 11 different crews - mostly as engineer but every position except radio and ball.

Ben H. Allen flysandy@anet-dfw.com Peggy Ferris told me about your work. Very good! Have you seen my son's art store on American Aviation Art? www.AMAVART.com Give him a look. Good work, again, Ben Allen

Alan C. Palm - I had the honor of seeing the aircraft at Reading, PA a few years ago at their World War II Commemorative weekend. And I also had the honor of having a picture of it signed by the crew of the aircraft which flew it in from Texas. Let's Keep'Em Flying!

Scott Burris deltadog@trollweb.com Great website. You are fortunate to have such a detailed history with photographs no less. Now that I'm back in the Houston area, I look forward to visiting the tribute version of Thunderbird. I've spent the last several years researching my grandfather and his crew from the 381st BG 534th BS. You can examine what I have so far at http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1628/charles.html Thanks for putting such a rich history up on line for all to enjoy.

Kris Waechter Waech@bgnet.bgsu.edu I am an active member at the MAPS Air Museum in Canton Ohio. I have a love for the B-17 flying fortress. My grandfather was a top turret gunner on them and did the nose art for 7 fortresses. My grandpa's name is Lee Kessler and he was in the 306th bomb group. He painted the nose art of THE EAGER BEAVER and THE LITTLE SAVAGE. Those are the only two that I can remember off hand.

Michelle Johns peanut3@hotmail.com I am a senior in high school. I am researching a report on the air war of World War II. I'm more interested in the deatils of the crew men, rather than focusing on the vast amounts of missions. If you know of anyone, airmam, ground creew, or a family member I could contack via innternet who I could speak with. I would greatly appricate any help. Thanks! Great Page!

Wesley G. Loosemore wesley@sunline.net Flew my mission #6 in the big bird on 7/12/44. Our crew flew her again on 7/16, but had to abort due to a supercharger waste gate failure. The mission we flew to Munich was uneventful and we brought her back in the same condition we took her.

Robin Beeby I am the official UK Liaison for the 303rd, based about 10 miles west of Molesworth. I have some Thunderbird photos given me by Bob Brassil, who was on the ground crew for Thunderbird. Some of the photos show when the nose art was being painted, whilst some show her when she lost the no. 2 engine propeller. We also have one colour Photo of her when she belly landed after the undercarriage would not come down during a slow timing flight. Regards, Robin
[Thanks for sending the photos... they have been added to the Photo Page.]

Chris Murphy JBravo6680@aol.com Hello, My name is Chris Murphy, and I am doing a research paper on the B-17 Flying Fortress. I found your web page extremely informative and have decided to emphasize the "Thunderbird" in my paper, and mention it's crew and it's accomplishments. This is one of the best web sites I have ever seen (especially on just one plane) and would like to personally commend you on your great work. The only constructive critisicm that I have is that I would like to know how long some of the missions took, and perhaps why there were 4 gunners, but a B-17 was equipped with 13 guns?? Once again I thank you and will visit this site again, it is a model to all other historical sites like it. If you happen to know the answers to my questions, please email me.

I salute the Thunderbird crew, they truly are American heroes and patriots. Chris Murphy, Cadet 1st Lt. AFJROTC

Gary Gaumer ggaumer@neo.lrun.com My father (Billy 'Red" Gaumer) flew 8 missions on Thunderbird as a ball turret gunner. He and his crew flew Thunderbird on the official 100th mission.I'm constantly looking for information about Thunderbird and just came across your home page. My father would like to talk to you by phone, if possible. Can you E-Mail me a phone number where he can reach you? I'd appreciate it. He's at my house now and would talk to you right now if he could.

I know your Dad would be very proud of what you have accomplished with your web page. I know it was great to see my Dad's enthusiasm when he saw it. Dad also absolutely loves "Thunderbird". It's unfortunate that the general public just doesn't remember what men like your Dad and mine did to help win WWII. There are many others out there who deserve some recognition too.

Stephan McDonald Stephan.McDonald@pacificorp.com I enjoyed reading your web-site about your father and the B-17 that he flew during WWII. I took a copy of it up and shared it with my father. During WWII he worked at the Pocatello Army Air Base. He was an aircraft electrician and did repair work on B-17's and B-24's that were shot up, but could limp back to the "States".

My mother always said that she felt that my father enjoyed that job more than any other job that he had ever held. She stated that she only heard him complain about being out at the airport once and that was when a fellow employee accidently walked into a prop that was turning. It decapitated him and someone counted 96 spots down the runway where the head had bounced.

Although I was only six years old when WWII ended, I have quite a few memories of things happening then. I can remember when the war ended, my father tied an old snare drum to the hood of the car. Two of my cousin's, teen-age girls sat on the fenders of the car and we drove all over Pocatello honking the horn and the girls beating on the drum. My parents let my sister or I on the fenders, because they said we were too young.

I can remember when FDR died. I can remember my mother listening to the radio and when the casualty reports came of American "boys" being killed, or her running in an throwing herself on the bed weeping. My mother just passed away the 2nd January of this year.

I was thinking about you yesterday...I was watching a show on "The History Channel" about bombing runs from Africa to the Nazi oil fields in Romania. I was going to give you a telephone call, but I could not find your telephone number in the Salt Lake City telephone book.

I got out my hard copy of your web page, but your father never made any runs from Africa, as I could tell.

I'd like to get together with you sometime and visit.
73's, Stephan

David Brooks davidbr@microsoft.com I am very grateful to you for having created the Thunderbird home page. I spent the last hour reading your father's mission journals, the history of the aircraft, and the biographies of your father and David Chang. Even though I had seen the mission journals once before in the book you assembled about your father, I must tell you that re-reading them was a very moving experience.

My appreciation for what our fathers endured during their missions continues to deepen. In a very literal sense I owe my existence to your father's skillful handling of the aircraft and the contributions of each of the crew, but in addition I cannot help but wonder how and why the crew of the Thunderbird was spared when so many died.

The intensity of the experience of flying the Thunderbird into battle is hard to imagine, but I can tell you that it was the pivotal experience of my father's life. He didn't speak about his war experiences often, but when he did there was no doubt he was sharing something that had touched him deep in his soul. My mother did not enjoy hearing my father relate his experiences (she was not part of them!), so I never heard most of the details in your father's journals.

After the war my dad enrolled at Cornell University under the GI bill and became a chemical engineer. He married my mother, Beatrice Alpern, while he was still at college. He graduated in 1950 and worked his whole career in the New York area. He had three children, myself, a daughter Marcia and another son Larry. After he retired he and my mother moved to Vermont, where they had a vacation cabin. He died in July, 1995.

My father was not an ambitious man, and his philosophy was more or less "why worry". When he was in the hospital early in 1995 with lymphoma (a form of cancer), all of us knew he was dying. The doctors never explicitly told my father he was dying, but when I spoke with him about what he was thinking he said "There's no point worrying about things you can't do anything about.". This philosophy must have been shaped, at least in part, by the experiences described so vividly in your father's journal. One of my father's favorite tunes was "Que Sera, Sera" - a tune that was very popular during WWII that espouses a similar point of view.

We kids, and especially my mother, found my father's relaxed approach to life frustrating -- why not go for that promotion, etc? In retrospect it's now easy to understand why, having survived the horrific experiences he did, he would be ecstatically happy just to be alive!

I have one favor to ask. I would be very grateful if you could arrange to have a professional photographer duplicate the photo you've included on the website of the crew in front of their plane . I will gladly reimburse you whatever it costs, and would like the photo to be at least 8X10 (or bigger!). My father had a copy of this photo with the names of the crew, but unfortunately it has been lost along with some other memorabilia. I was able to retrieve his uniform, military paperwork and lots of other mementos including some of his navigation equipment -- remarkably useful but simple tools!

Here are two little anecdotes about the Thunderbird you may enjoy: * The crew communicated via an intercom system, and according to my father it was a strict rule that crew members speak slowly and quietly, and restrict their communications only to business -- no gossiping, no yelling, etc, etc. On one mission my father was taking a sextant sighting in the navigator's dome when he spotted an enemy fighter approaching. He whispered into the microphone, "enemy fighter at 10 o'clock". Immediately he heard back from your father "Stop shouting and slow down! Now, what did you say?". My father again whispered "enemy fighter at 10 o'clock" and got the same respone from your father -- he was so scared he hadn't realized he was talking as loud and as fast as he could!

* Another anecdote I recall is probably true but I'm not sure David Chang would appreciate it. There was no lavatory on the B-17 and some of the missions lasted 8-10 hours. After the excitement of a bombing run or encounter with enemy fighters was over and they were out of harm's way, the crew would circulate their portable lavatory -- i.e., a gallon jug which each man in turn would use to relieve himself. You may recall that the B-17s weren't heated either, so typical flying clothing included long underwear and fleece-lined sheepskin pants. Relieving oneself into a gallon jug while wearing this gear inside the nose of the aircraft was, apparently, a challenge for Mr Chang. According to my father, Mr Chang's solution was to tie a string to the appropriate part of his body to assist in this delicate process! I guess this is true but you may want to check this with Mr Chang....

I hope we will be able to get together sometime to honor the Thunderbird. I travel to SLC only rarely, but if you are ever in Seattle I hope you will not hesitate to give me a call. If there is anything else I can contribute to the website please let me know.
Best regards - David

Tom Hill (Hill AFB Museum) MFTLHill@aol.com Dear Mr. Moncur, I forgot to mention in my previous message... Your "Thunderbird" web pages are great! Would you mind if we linked to them from the museum's pages? Thanks again, Tom

Chris Gattman gatt@europa.com Fantastic web page! It's good to see other people out there with such a profound appreciation for B-17s and especially for the various individual aircraft out there that would otherwise be forgotten.

"Thunderbird" wasn't an uncommon name but I definately recognize the nose art. I'm not sure, but that airplane may have served briefly with the 91st.

My grandfather (actually my father as he adopted me at birth) rode left waist in the 96th until he was shot down at Schweinfurt. The plane his crew named "Outhouse Mouse" was issued to them brand new and they brought it to England, where it was taken over for retrofitting and ended up with the 91st. She went on to fight in the same squadron as Nine-O-Nine. They must have been charmed; Nine-O-Nine brought in 136 missions and the Mouse made it through 133. Like the Thunderbird, they ended up in the Kingman scrapyard.

Judging from veteran reports, the airplanes that made it through all those missions were simply too worn out to salvage. The Mouse was described as a "Flying Flakpatch" and was considered the ugliest plane on the base. You'd think they'd feel lucky to fly in an old reliable bird, but practicality said it was likely to fall apart on you.

What I've discovered is that it's difficult to put together a flight crew history for the triple-digit-mission aircraft because by the end of the war they were considered spare aircraft, used only when a squadron was short. As one 91st vet I spoke with said, almost everybody in the 91st had ridden in Nine-O-Nine and the Mouse. By late war they just didn't have assigned crews anymore.

Of course this makes the vets that attached their loyalty to the aircraft bitter because hundreds of people can say "Oh, that was our plane" when only one crew named her and only maybe two or three actually served the bulk of heir missions in the plane.

Basically, the point is that I tried to do a history of the Mouse and a 91st vet said "Well, just take the 91stBG roster and write down all the names." I ended up trying to compile a mission history of the aircraft itself based on the serial number.

Good luck and happy hunting. If I find any information about Thunderbird I'll forward it. I work on 7th Wonder which is a last-series G model that served with the 7th AF and later the CIA. She's in beautiful shape and fully restored such that we actually had to take things OUT to appease FAA safety and weight/balance restrictions. We talk to vets all the time, so if I see any 303rd folks I'll be sure to get their attention.
Regards, and thanks for a great site!

Tony Repka Tony.Repka@EISGROUP.com Are you going to put in a 'view' guest book link on your thunderbird page? Nice page! I've been communicating with Lee Gnatzig on 381st home page. Regards.

Richard Matern rmatern@weber.edu I had some extra time today at school, so I decided to check it out. My mom had mentioned to me that you had been working on this for awhile. It looks great! You've done an excellent. I'm sure grandpa is really proud of what you've done.

Wade Meyers 1944mustang@compuserve.com Beautiful site. Wish there was more like it, i. e., more sites focused on specific a/c and crews. I'm an aviation artist and the Keith Ferris paintings are superb, THANKS...

Justin Anderson studebaker_1@hotmail.com Hi Gary, I like your page it has a lot of interesting information and pictures. The pictures do not take very long to download. Nice job on your page.

Keith Ferris kferris303@aol.com I am working on an email letter for you in response to your letter of 8/24/97. Sorry for the delay. Enjoyed your Web site. We'll be able to supply more infomation for it.

Dr Michael Enright menright@swin.edu.au I am hoping to correspond with former aircrew members of the 381st. I want to establish a base of material for for an article for an aviation magazine. To date my intersts have centered on where members of my family served - RAF Bomber Command and RAF Coastal Command. I have had two articles published in the English magazine, AEROPLANE MONTHLY. Can you spread the word on my interest? I am an historian; my PhD is from the University of Melbourne, in history.
I sincerely hope you can help. Regards, Michael Enright

Michael Kawasaki Kawasaki.M@grainger.com After visiting the Memphis Belle site, I received a letter from R.J. Bokleman, Jr. He thought I'd be interested in visiting The Hangar too! I'm very happy I did. Thanks for this wonderful opportunity.

Dennis Saw bad_boy@tm.net.my Hi there, greetings from Malaysia. Although I was born 20+ years after the end of WW2 and live thousands of miles from the scene of battle for the B17s, I've grown to love this plane and your website is one of the best that I've been to. A very moving testimony to your dad and the crews that flew in those missions.

Jeff Clark jeffcl5@aol.com WOW! I love planes and I've really enjoyed reading your logs. Great site. I've told a lot of people about it. JoAnn Matern told me about the site.

Donna Rosier Wilson My dad really appreciated the information you sent him. He and mom are working on his biography. I will contact you sometime at my son's e:mail address at his home when I go to his house next time. We got to meet Jim Andrus when he came to visit dad. He died just a few weeks before my brother Lavern, dad's oldest child. The last couple of years have been rough on dad. We are all so proud of him and your dad and all the others who served our country during WWII. Well I've got to get back to work. I'll be in touch with you at a later date.

John Otis nix@myhome.net Father in 351,511 "Sky Ball". My Dads journal 35 missions Feb5 toJuly 44 is also great storage of info. Would you be intrested in a copy? After reading your account I though you might as you were on many of the same raids and his missions were often one day different than yours and it gives a day by day account by reading both journals. Thank You so much for your time in saving this information. Maybe you could help me in knowing what to do with Dads Journal if you read it. I would be glad to send it to you. It is hand written and I have made copies.
Thank You Again, John Otis

David J. Brouchoud brouchou@execpc.com Hi Gary, I am an assoc member of the Wisconsin Chapter of the 8th A.F. Your web site is great. We are always looking for information to enhance of mini-reunions. They are held four times each year. One of our members was on the 303rd ground crews. I'm sure he will want to look at your page. Will keep you posted. Thanks again.

Dana Potts SmudgeRio@aol.com Superb site of my favorite "fortress." Well done!

Mike Read miker@lightspeed.net I am a member of the Minter Field Air Musuem. After learning the Vern L. Moncur was a Minter Cadet, I will search through our archives and see if there is any further "stuff" I can find. I have base newspapers, logbooks,yearbooks ect. If you are interested, please reply Thank you, Mike Read

Ray Boone bogy812@alaska.net Nice site. Wish there were more of them like yours. Seeing the "Triangle C" reminds me of Molesworth. I was stationed at RAF Alconbury (1991-1994) and visited Molesworth often. Being there rekindled my interest in the 445 BG(H), station 124, Tibingham(sp), UK. I love WWII history even have an original Keith Hill painting of my Uncles B-24J, #128652, Tennessee Dottie. Do you know of any sites relating to the 445 BG(H) or station #124? I would like to forward a copy of the painting to them. Again nice site and "may the memories never die"

Edgar C. "Ed" Miller edmiller@pldi.net I just had to make a revisit to your Thunderbird webpage. Again, I think it is a great tribute to your Father.

David Fritsch Herk.Meck@aol.com Very good site. I enjoyed every part of it. Good luck on your quest.

Larry Gamble gamblel@aol.com Gary, I loved the site! The details you included are great, I found the mission notes riviting. This is an outstanding site! I bookmarked it for reference later. Larry

Ken McTigue marken@senet.com.au I am interested in 8th Airforce any info regarding European Theatre of operations during WW2. I lived next to the 95th BG who flew B17's from Horham (Suffolk, 1943/45) Airfield and have fond memories of the years spent in contact with GI's. I am intersted in any info regarding your Dad's Missions. My son (now 34) is currently building a 1.24 scale model of a B17G, and is interested in modelling it on an actual and historical B17. The fact that your Dad's plane held a record is of interest to him.
Best regards to you, I am glad to have made your aquaintance, Your sincerely Ken McTigue

William Heller KCTN57A@Prodigy.com I was first in 360th Sqdn then to 359th as Operations Officer prior to going back to 360th as Commanding Officer. I knew your Father. I was in the 360th when he got there, but we shared the same mess hall and Bar. Hope to meet you at the next 303rd reunion in Savannah in 8/98.

Tom Kolessar Got to fly the "new" Thunderbird, Lone Star's B-17 in October. I normally fly "Texas Raiders" with the CAF and occasionally "Nine-O-Nine" with Collings.

You've got a great idea with this web page. Hope we get to meet at an airshow someday - maybe go for a flight in the best airplane ever made!

David K. S. Chang (Original Bombardier) Able to read internet through a friend and think it is fantastic. I will forward all requested photos and necessary documents. I think you will find it very useful. Thank you very much, I am very excited.

Dan Kirwan neboom@aol.com This site is a wonderful monument to your father and all who flew with him. I've sent out the URL to all of my friends. Keep up the good work. Dan

Heidi Girman Hydeho13@aol.com Gary - What a great tribute to your Dad and everyone else connected the Thunderbird! My father (Gene) was the radio man on the 100th mission "Fortresses under Fire". Mrs Andrus gave us this address. My Dad wants to be sure your Dad's crew is properly remembered at the 8th AF museum in England. Please E- mail me as we need help obtaining a crew photo. I hope you can help us give your Dad and his crew the recognition they deserve. - Heidi

R. D. Wilbanks drwil@flash.net Searching for information on late uncle killed in B-17 over New Guinea sometime in 1943 I think. Do you have any suggestions for look up methods via the web? Thanks ahead of time. Bob

JoAnn Matern jmmatern@datc.tec.ut.us I am your sister, Buster! Gary, this site is SO COOL!! I'm really proud of you and of dad and of what you've done! Thank you from all your siblings! (Now if I could just figure out how to get them all on the Internet).

Bob Caissie caissie@bose.com Hi, Really cool web page, I noticed in the Newsgroup some thing refering to the Hells Angels. I met a b-17 driver named Dick Johnson (33 misions) who flew in the Hells Angels. He was at Oshkosh 94. Would you happen to have any other info on other planes in the Hell's Angels. It would be cool to read about the guy or his plane. Keep up the good work. I love the planes of WW 2.

Cees Steijger Cees.Steijger@att-unisource.com Hello, Just wanted to let you know that I like you page. I am also in a research: my focus is B17G 42-30280 from 482BG. This plane happened to be the lead 'Mickey' (radar) B17 of the raid on 21FEB44 to Diepholz. 385BG was the lead group. I'd like to know more of what the 303BG did that day. If you need more info from my side, let me know.
Cees Steijger, Koolwitje 6, 3892 GA Zeewolde, Netherlands