From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 4 17:27:35 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net> Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season at Molesworth? I have heard some Groups held Christmas parties for children living near the bases - did anything like this occur at the 303rd. What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era? Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 4 18:18:40 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost> I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me at glm@303rdBGA.com This page should be a lot of fun. Thanks! -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 00:25:26 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or bed and/or blanket, etc. By this time the well known pot bellied stoves had burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer. I gently lifted a blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with my head next to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head. By the time I got back from First Aid my blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve sleeping in a chair in the day room. Favorite song was Opus Number One, by Tommy Dorsey, I believe. The first 8 bars were sure to get your attention. Speaking of Christmas...by all means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!! Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 2 05:00:57 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com> --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks. The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight. It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out. Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear. There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off? Cheers, Ol' Bob --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces.

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed.

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 03:46:32 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve In-Reply-To: References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net> Bob Hand, Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned. Jim Walling At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth >when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. >Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 05:49:09 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited Message-ID: Ol Bob, I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have would be just the opposite from their normal effect. Your drinking buddy was wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I join with you in being thankful you are still with us. Best Wishes, Jack From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Dec 6 05:20:11 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited References: Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11> Jack Rencher - Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site. My 2c worth & best regards - Rich Young ----------- > Ol Bob, > I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to > Best Wishes, > Jack > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 00:42:54 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 00:45:50 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Bob Hand, Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 02:28:34 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941 Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen> Dec.7, 1941 I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened to everything that was said for the next several days. My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943. Bill Owen From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 02:56:07 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return. The rest is ancient history. Cheers, Bob Hand> From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 01:21:07 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net> Vern, Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. Jim Walling At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >Bob Hand, >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the >page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > >-- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 01:13:43 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums is http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg At the time he was in basic flying school. The picture is dated Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the Pacific. Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight instructor before joining the 303rd. But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering what they must have been thinking at the time. Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine wejones@megalink.net Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 16:25:04 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net> References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 > jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him > for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. Jim, That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection. We still show Mott as a missing comrade. I don't know if he is living or not. -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 17:53:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com> --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Walling Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at Molesworth. Charles Mott was my good friend. He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth. The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott. Harry D. Gobrecht --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 01:52:59 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you? Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we = went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a = jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to = Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March & enlisted March 17.'42. Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on = Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there. Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My wife to be ate dinner after = churchwith my=20 family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the = seat -=20 just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the = radio.=20 Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20 &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to = Minnesota to see=20 a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20 there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20 Paulk
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 02:03:04 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK> Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor. On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport, Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this happening would be far off the charts. Herb Shanker ----- Original Message ----- From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com> To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs > Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur) > 2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur) > 3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen) > 4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand) > 5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net) > 6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones) > 7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700 > Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700 > Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com > Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Bob Hand, > Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the > page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? > http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: "Bill Owen" > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600 > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Dec.7, 1941 > > I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back > yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We > did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled > to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He > replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had > no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened > to everything that was said for the next several days. > > My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my > parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a > few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he > wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943. > > Bill Owen > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > From: Bob Hand > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an > orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure > scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my > belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return. > The rest is ancient history. Cheers, Bob Hand> > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000 > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Vern, > > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. > > Jim Walling > > > > > At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob Hand, > >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the > >page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? > >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > > > >-- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > > http://www.303rdBGA.com > > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Bill Jones" > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > > > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? > > One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums > is > http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg > > At the time he was in basic flying school. The picture is dated > Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other > people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume > that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the > Pacific. Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight > instructor before joining the 303rd. > > But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering > what they must have been thinking at the time. > > > > > > Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine wejones@megalink.net > > Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones > WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 > > jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him > > for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. > > Jim, > That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection. We still > show Mott as a missing comrade. I don't know if he is living > or not. > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk > > > End of 303rd-Talk Digest From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 04:18:29 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941 Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Leroy Audrey=20 To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20 Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM Subject: Dec.7, 1941 It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not = really! Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had = gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in = Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first = feature and the late night feature film. The band, Jimmy Dorsey with = lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the = downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section = of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were = packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I = think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted = twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, = there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would = be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military = service. One ended up in a radar installation in Panama, one an = ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar = training school, my buddy, a P-38 pilot in Ephrata, WA. were a = training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a = navigator.That day changed the course of our lives. LeRoy Christenson ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy=20 Audrey
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941

It was Sunday and the day after a = Saturday night=20 out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high = school, now=20 at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show = house in=20 Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first = feature and=20 the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead = singer Helen=20 O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room = of my=20 buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the = other guys=20 were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that = night.=20 The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the = program=20 was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell = the=20 others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year = we would=20 be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20 service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one = an=20 ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar = training=20 school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a = training=20 accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a = navigator.That day=20 changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy=20 Christenson
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 04:53:08 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2 Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost> This is from Spider Smith. Graphics don't work on the list, so I intercepted the message and am resending it. Spider's A-2 Jacket is now online with the others here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this one. Please resend it. Sorry! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "spider" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: SPIDERS A2 Date sent: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800 Forwarded to: 303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com Date forwarded: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST) Forwarded by: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com HI GARY AND ALL: HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT FIT ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44. DICK "SPIDER" SMITH -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 16:53:18 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FA3.79726200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state. =20 North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small = company has been in the process of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US = Navy loaned them their original captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original = they copied it and are very close to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this = design will take flight). =20 I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of = the old B-17 guys recalled encounters with this jet, most said it stood off and fired rockets into the = formation. Some veterans said it would make one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away. One veteran recalled if = 262's were encounter P-51's would circle the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and = shoot it down. =20 Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a = fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being = used against out bombers thus many B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today. =20 The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due = to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never = break the sound barrier.=20 =20 Here are some pic's. 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Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2 Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost> This is from Spider Smith. Graphics don't work on the list, so I intercepted the message and am resending it. Spider's A-2 Jacket is now online with the others here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this one. Please resend it. Sorry! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "spider" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: SPIDERS A2 Date sent: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800 Forwarded to: 303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com Date forwarded: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST) Forwarded by: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com HI GARY AND ALL: HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT FIT ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44. DICK "SPIDER" SMITH ------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 21:58:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7 Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com> --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all, I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942. Bill D. --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 22:21:17 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject) Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com> --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 19:00:42 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject) Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he took to be posted). I remember him saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the Japanese planes. Were any of you other 303rd members there that day? =20 Duke Drewry ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Da= d was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so = he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he = took to be posted).  I remember = him saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to = fire at the Japanese planes.

We= re any of you other 303rd members there that = day?

 

Du= ke Drewry

------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 19:36:50 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Greg: Thanks for posting the information on the 262! What a project that must have been. Any idea what engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it a full-size reproduction? When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno engines. I've also read that at the end of the war the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since our boys had decimated most of the German airfields. Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys building the 262. I may be down there in the next couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit. Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com> Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. Terry Lucas From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed Message-ID:

Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero.

Brian S. McGuire
>From: Thor542086@aol.com
>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
>
>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller
>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS.
>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
>Terry Lucas

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 4 17:27:35 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net> Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season at Molesworth? I have heard some Groups held Christmas parties for children living near the bases - did anything like this occur at the 303rd. What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era? Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 4 18:18:40 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost> I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me at glm@303rdBGA.com This page should be a lot of fun. Thanks! -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 00:25:26 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or bed and/or blanket, etc. By this time the well known pot bellied stoves had burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer. I gently lifted a blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with my head next to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head. By the time I got back from First Aid my blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve sleeping in a chair in the day room. Favorite song was Opus Number One, by Tommy Dorsey, I believe. The first 8 bars were sure to get your attention. Speaking of Christmas...by all means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!! Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 2 05:00:57 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com> --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks. The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight. It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out. Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear. There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off? Cheers, Ol' Bob --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces.

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed.

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob --part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 03:46:32 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve In-Reply-To: References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net> Bob Hand, Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned. Jim Walling At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth >when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. >Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 5 05:49:09 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited Message-ID: Ol Bob, I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have would be just the opposite from their normal effect. Your drinking buddy was wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I join with you in being thankful you are still with us. Best Wishes, Jack From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Dec 6 05:20:11 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited References: Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11> Jack Rencher - Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site. My 2c worth & best regards - Rich Young ----------- > Ol Bob, > I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to > Best Wishes, > Jack > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 00:42:54 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 00:45:50 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Bob Hand, Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 02:28:34 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941 Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen> Dec.7, 1941 I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened to everything that was said for the next several days. My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943. Bill Owen From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 02:56:07 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return. The rest is ancient history. Cheers, Bob Hand> From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 01:21:07 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net> Vern, Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. Jim Walling At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >Bob Hand, >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the >page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > >-- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 01:13:43 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums is http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg At the time he was in basic flying school. The picture is dated Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the Pacific. Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight instructor before joining the 303rd. But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering what they must have been thinking at the time. Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine wejones@megalink.net Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 16:25:04 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net> References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 > jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him > for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. Jim, That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection. We still show Mott as a missing comrade. I don't know if he is living or not. -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 17:53:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com> --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Walling Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at Molesworth. Charles Mott was my good friend. He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth. The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott. Harry D. Gobrecht --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht --part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 01:52:59 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you? Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we = went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a = jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to = Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March & enlisted March 17.'42. Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on = Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there. Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My wife to be ate dinner after = churchwith my=20 family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the = seat -=20 just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the = radio.=20 Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20 &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to = Minnesota to see=20 a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20 there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20 Paulk
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 02:03:04 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK> Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor. On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport, Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this happening would be far off the charts. Herb Shanker ----- Original Message ----- From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com> To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs > Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur) > 2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur) > 3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen) > 4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand) > 5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net) > 6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones) > 7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700 > Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700 > Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com > Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Bob Hand, > Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the > page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? > http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: "Bill Owen" > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600 > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Dec.7, 1941 > > I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back > yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We > did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled > to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He > replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had > no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened > to everything that was said for the next several days. > > My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my > parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a > few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he > wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943. > > Bill Owen > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > From: Bob Hand > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an > orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure > scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my > belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return. > The rest is ancient history. Cheers, Bob Hand> > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000 > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Vern, > > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. > > Jim Walling > > > > > At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob Hand, > >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket. I have it on the > >page now. Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show? > >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html > > > >-- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > > http://www.303rdBGA.com > > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Bill Jones" > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > > > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of > > those who were old enough to know what was happening. This was > > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing > > the news on the radio. I wish he were here now to tell what he > > was doing at the time. What were you doing 61 years ago when > > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor? > > One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums > is > http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg > > At the time he was in basic flying school. The picture is dated > Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other > people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume > that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the > Pacific. Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight > instructor before joining the 303rd. > > But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering > what they must have been thinking at the time. > > > > > > Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine wejones@megalink.net > > Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones > WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 > > jacket? He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him > > for years. We don't know if he is living or dead. > > Jim, > That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection. We still > show Mott as a missing comrade. I don't know if he is living > or not. > > -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.B17Thunderbird.com > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk > > > End of 303rd-Talk Digest From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 04:18:29 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941 Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Leroy Audrey=20 To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20 Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM Subject: Dec.7, 1941 It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not = really! Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had = gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in = Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first = feature and the late night feature film. The band, Jimmy Dorsey with = lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the = downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section = of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were = packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I = think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted = twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, = there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would = be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military = service. One ended up in a radar installation in Panama, one an = ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar = training school, my buddy, a P-38 pilot in Ephrata, WA. were a = training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a = navigator.That day changed the course of our lives. LeRoy Christenson ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy=20 Audrey
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941

It was Sunday and the day after a = Saturday night=20 out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high = school, now=20 at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show = house in=20 Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first = feature and=20 the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead = singer Helen=20 O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room = of my=20 buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the = other guys=20 were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that = night.=20 The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the = program=20 was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell = the=20 others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year = we would=20 be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20 service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one = an=20 ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar = training=20 school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a = training=20 accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a = navigator.That day=20 changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy=20 Christenson
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 04:53:08 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2 Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost> This is from Spider Smith. Graphics don't work on the list, so I intercepted the message and am resending it. Spider's A-2 Jacket is now online with the others here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this one. Please resend it. Sorry! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "spider" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: SPIDERS A2 Date sent: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800 Forwarded to: 303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com Date forwarded: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST) Forwarded by: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com HI GARY AND ALL: HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT FIT ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44. DICK "SPIDER" SMITH -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 16:53:18 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FA3.79726200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state. =20 North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small = company has been in the process of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US = Navy loaned them their original captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original = they copied it and are very close to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this = design will take flight). =20 I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of = the old B-17 guys recalled encounters with this jet, most said it stood off and fired rockets into the = formation. Some veterans said it would make one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away. One veteran recalled if = 262's were encounter P-51's would circle the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and = shoot it down. =20 Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a = fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being = used against out bombers thus many B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today. =20 The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due = to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never = break the sound barrier.=20 =20 Here are some pic's. 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Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2 Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost> This is from Spider Smith. Graphics don't work on the list, so I intercepted the message and am resending it. Spider's A-2 Jacket is now online with the others here: http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this one. Please resend it. Sorry! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "spider" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: SPIDERS A2 Date sent: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800 Forwarded to: 303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com Date forwarded: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST) Forwarded by: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com HI GARY AND ALL: HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT FIT ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44. DICK "SPIDER" SMITH ------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 21:58:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7 Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com> --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all, I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942. Bill D. --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  --part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Dec 8 22:21:17 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject) Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com> --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. --part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 19:00:42 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject) Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he took to be posted). I remember him saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the Japanese planes. Were any of you other 303rd members there that day? =20 Duke Drewry ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Da= d was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so = he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he = took to be posted).  I remember = him saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to = fire at the Japanese planes.

We= re any of you other 303rd members there that = day?

 

Du= ke Drewry

------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 9 19:36:50 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Greg: Thanks for posting the information on the 262! What a project that must have been. Any idea what engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it a full-size reproduction? When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno engines. I've also read that at the end of the war the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since our boys had decimated most of the German airfields. Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys building the 262. I may be down there in the next couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit. Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com> Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. Terry Lucas From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed Message-ID:

Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero.

Brian S. McGuire
>From: Thor542086@aol.com
>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
>
>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller
>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS.
>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
>Terry Lucas

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address? Thanks! Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost> Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Gary: I was with a client today that would like to join our chat ring. His name is Hans Vogel and his e-mail is: hvogel@triverus.com I will let him give his background. Perhaps you could send him a brief message on how to sign up. It's been so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how. Hans: Please feel free to ask any questions of the veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to WWII and the airwar. Gary monitors all of our posts to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this forum. You should also check out the 303rd BG website. It's one of the best! Thanks Gary! Kevin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost> Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost> Hans, Welcome! I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 303rd. Make yourself at home and get to know some great people. There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent people here. > Hans: Please feel free to ask any questions of the > veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to > WWII and the airwar. Gary monitors all of our posts > to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this > forum. You should also check out the 303rd BG > website. It's one of the best! -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900 Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost> Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com> Thank you, I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while. Although WWII is quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. Hans Vogel Triverus LLC 907.830.9098 www.triverus.com -----Original Message----- From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member Hans, Welcome! I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 303rd. Make yourself at home and get to know some great people. There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent people here. > Hans: Please feel free to ask any questions of the > veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to > WWII and the airwar. Gary monitors all of our posts > to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this > forum. You should also check out the 303rd BG > website. It's one of the best! -- Gary -- Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the following question? Kevin (I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262 attack near Dresden (II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085- crashed after mid air collision near Dresden (III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq, 43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux (IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed because of Flak near Chemnitz (V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. - I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All wreckages were found and now I try to collect informations about the planes. Who can help? Just email me: wellington@gmx.ch __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03. May you have A very Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT? Jack Rencher From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945 Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain> Hello, All. I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945. The two planes involved were SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface 44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for transport to a museum. This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains of some of the aircraft. Anyone care to help out? By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't ask Gary to post it on the site. Thanks, Gordy. Gordon Alton Salt Spring Island, BC 250-537-5913 tailgunnerson@uniserve.com "Please remember those who gave so much to keep your freedom free..." From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com> Message-ID: > May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land > your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your > Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when > you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus > May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03. May you have A very > Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT? > Jack Rencher > Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form. As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being the facts of life in "The Golden Age". Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours, with congratulations and thanks thrown in! Cheers, Bob Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com> 
ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

>From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

--part1_11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 18:18:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost>

I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page 
here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me 
at glm@303rdBGA.com
This page should be a lot of fun.
Thanks!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 00:25:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the
festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or
bed and/or blanket, etc.  By this time the well known pot bellied stoves  had
burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer.  I gently lifted a
blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with
my head next  to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person
wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing
all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head.  By the time I got
back from First Aid my  blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve
sleeping in a chair in the day room.

Favorite song was Opus  Number One, by  Tommy Dorsey,  I believe.  The first
8 bars were sure to get your attention.    Speaking of Christmas...by all
means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!!     Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand                        



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  2 05:00:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com>

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The 
question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer 
crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to 
try and pick up the pieces. 

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had 
while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned 
chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots 
were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific 
airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at 
about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff 
roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately 
went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before 
the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under 
the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified 
course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the 
clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during 
interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of 
Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface 
locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control 
column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the 
locking pin removed. 

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were 
for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.



The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. 



For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.



It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.



Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.



There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. 



Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?



Cheers, Ol' Bob

--part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 03:46:32 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net>

Bob Hand,

Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned.

Jim Walling

At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
>when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath.

>Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 05:49:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: 

Ol Bob,
     I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to 
but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion 
If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very 
little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have 
would be just the opposite from their normal effect.  Your drinking buddy was 
wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned 
with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only 
the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder 
and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I 
join with you in being thankful you are still with us.
     Best Wishes,
           Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec  6 05:20:11 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11>

Jack Rencher -

Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is
missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your
experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site.

My 2c worth & best regards -

Rich Young
-----------

> Ol Bob,
>      I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me
to
>      Best Wishes,
>            Jack
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:42:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>

Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:45:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>

Bob Hand,
Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:28:34 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen>

Dec.7, 1941

I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back
yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had
no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened
to everything that was said for the next several days.

My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he
wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.

Bill Owen




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:56:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure
scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:21:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>

Vern,

Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim Walling




At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob Hand,
>Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
>page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
>http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
>-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>            http://www.303rdBGA.com
>            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:13:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost>


> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums 
is
http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg  

At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated 
Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other 
people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume 
that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the 
Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight 
instructor before joining the 303rd.

But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering 
what they must have been thinking at the time.   



 

 Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net               
                           
 Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones            
 WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html   
 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 16:25:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>
References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost>

> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim,
That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still 
show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living 
or not.

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 17:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com>

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS 
roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several 
years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny 
days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the 
same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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Jim Walling

Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid

I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.

Harry D. Gobrecht

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 01:52:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you?
Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman>

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My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we =
went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a =
jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to =
Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on =
Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600
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My wife to be ate dinner after =
churchwith my=20
family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the =
seat -=20
just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the =
radio.=20
Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20
&  enlisted March 17.'42.


Ironically we were on the road to =
Minnesota to see=20
a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20
there.


Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20
Paulk


------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 02:03:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net>
Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK>

Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks
older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger
football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller
specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport,
Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry
medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp
Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that
he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often
thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this
happening would be far off the charts.  Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com>
To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs


> Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur)
>    2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>    3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen)
>    4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand)
>    5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net)
>    6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones)
>    7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
> Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Bill Owen" 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Dec.7, 1941
>
> I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our
back
> yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
> did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
> to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
> replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I
had
> no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and
listened
> to everything that was said for the next several days.
>
> My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
> parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
> few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how
he
> wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.
>
> Bill Owen
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> From: Bob Hand 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
> orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It
sure
> scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
> belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
> The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Vern,
>
> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was
our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if
he is living or dead.
>
> Jim Walling
>
>
>
>
> At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bob Hand,
> >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> >page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> >
> >-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
> >            http://www.303rdBGA.com
> >            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Bill Jones" 
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
>
>
> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> > those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> > the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> > was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums
> is
> http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg
>
> At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated
> Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other
> people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume
> that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the
> Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight
> instructor before joining the 303rd.
>
> But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering
> what they must have been thinking at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net
>
>  Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>  WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> > jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> > for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.
>
> Jim,
> That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still
> show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living
> or not.
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
>
>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy Audrey=20
To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941


It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not =
really!  Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had =
gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in =
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with =
lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the =
downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section =
of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were =
packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I =
think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted =
twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, =
there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would =
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military =
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one an =
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy Christenson
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----- Original Message -----=20

From: Leroy=20
Audrey 



Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM


Subject: Dec.7, 1941





It was Sunday and the day after a =
Saturday night=20
out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high =
school, now=20
at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show =
house in=20
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and=20
the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead =
singer Helen=20
O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room =
of my=20
buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the =
other guys=20
were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that =
night.=20
The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the =
program=20
was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell =
the=20
others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year =
we would=20
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one =
an=20
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training=20
school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training=20
accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day=20
changed the course of our lives.


LeRoy=20
Christenson


------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:53:08 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 16:53:18 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FA3.79726200
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state.
=20
North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small =
company has been in the process
of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US =
Navy loaned them their original
captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original =
they copied it and are very close
to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this =
design will take flight).
=20
I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of =
the old B-17 guys recalled encounters
with this jet,  most said it stood off and fired rockets into the =
formation.  Some veterans said it would make
one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away.  One veteran recalled if =
262's were encounter P-51's would circle
the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and =
shoot it down.
=20
Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a =
fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was
happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being =
used against out bombers thus many
B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today.
=20
The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due =
to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never =
break the sound barrier.=20
=20
Here are some pic's.

Greg Pierce

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:46:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so 
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2 
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH

------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary --  Webmaster, 
303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:58:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7
Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com>

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Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, 
Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was 
stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and 
announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably 
were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand 
why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month 
our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended 
up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  

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Hi to all,

I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.

Bill D.  

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 22:21:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com>

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home 
on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message 
coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base 
imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that 
the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:00:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s
coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of
the pictures he took to be posted).  I remember him saying all they
could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the
Japanese planes.
Were any of you other 303rd members there that day?
=20
Duke Drewry

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Da=
d was at
Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so =
he
went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he =
took
to be posted).  I remember =
him
saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to =
fire
at the Japanese planes.



We=
re any
of you other 303rd members there that =
day?



 



Du=
ke Drewry









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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:36:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>

Greg:  Thanks for posting the information on the 262! 
What a project that must have been.  Any idea what
engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it
a full-size reproduction?

When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and
Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. 
Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough
titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno
engines.  I've also read that at the end of the war
the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since
our boys had decimated most of the German airfields.

Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys
building the 262.  I may be down there in the next
couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit.
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com>

Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 
was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 
Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
Terry Lucas


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: 




Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero. 


Brian S. McGuire








>From: Thor542086@aol.com 

>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com 

>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com 

>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed 

>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST 

> 

>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 

>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 

>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. 

>Terry Lucas 


MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service:  2 months FREE*


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth
In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address?

Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary:  I was with a client today that would like to
join our chat ring.  His name is Hans Vogel and his
e-mail is:

hvogel@triverus.com

I will let him give his background.  Perhaps you could
send him a brief message on how to sign up.  It's been
so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how.

Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
website.  It's one of the best!

Thanks Gary!

Kevin



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com>

Thank you,

I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while.  Although WWII is
quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider
it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. 

Hans Vogel
Triverus LLC
907.830.9098
www.triverus.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the
following question?  Kevin


(I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262
attack near Dresden
(II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085-
crashed after mid air collision near Dresden
(III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq,
43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux
(IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed
because of Flak near Chemnitz
(V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger

All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden
marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. -
I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All
wreckages were found and now I try to collect
informations about the planes. Who can help? Just
email me: wellington@gmx.ch 



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>

May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land 
your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your 
Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when 
you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus 
May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very 
Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
     Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945
Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain>

Hello, All.
    I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out
as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one
of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that
were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945.
    The two planes involved were

SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas

EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler

    I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one
mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface
44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me
a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for
transport to a museum.
    This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German
side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays
alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains
of some of the aircraft.
    Anyone care to help out?
    By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being
recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't
ask Gary to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land
> your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your
> Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when
> you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus
> May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very
> Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
>    Jack Rencher
> 
Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged
as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form.
As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in
gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer
expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer
to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential
and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being  the facts of
life in "The Golden Age".  Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours,
with congratulations and thanks thrown in!  Cheers, Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com>


ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

--part1_11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 14:07:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:07:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Greetings!
In-Reply-To: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> As a kid in Brooklyn I shined shoes twice a day at the 77th Precinct.  Don't
laugh...one day I came out of the bank with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS on deposit!  One
morning while slapping on the black polish one of the cops came in with a real
ruffian of a kid who'd been hauled in for breaking and entering a number of
times.  Every cop that passed him in his seat gave him a set of knuckles on the
back of his head. (This was the old days!!) At one point it was decided to take
this habitual offender down town for some serious punishment.  As he was led
away in cuffs, he paused in the doorway, turned to the station house crew and
said in Brooklynese, "I WANNA WISH YEZ AWL A VERY  MERRY CHRIS'MAS!!

Gentlemen and Ladies of the 303rd, I wish the same to you.  May your New
Year be bright with promise and good health. Cheers!   Bob and Nyela Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 18:18:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost>

I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page 
here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me 
at glm@303rdBGA.com
This page should be a lot of fun.
Thanks!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 00:25:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the
festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or
bed and/or blanket, etc.  By this time the well known pot bellied stoves  had
burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer.  I gently lifted a
blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with
my head next  to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person
wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing
all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head.  By the time I got
back from First Aid my  blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve
sleeping in a chair in the day room.

Favorite song was Opus  Number One, by  Tommy Dorsey,  I believe.  The first
8 bars were sure to get your attention.    Speaking of Christmas...by all
means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!!     Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand                        



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  2 05:00:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com>

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The 
question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer 
crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to 
try and pick up the pieces. 

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had 
while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned 
chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots 
were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific 
airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at 
about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff 
roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately 
went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before 
the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under 
the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified 
course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the 
clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during 
interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of 
Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface 
locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control 
column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the 
locking pin removed. 

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were 
for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob

--part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary
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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.



The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. 



For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.



It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.



Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.



There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. 



Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?



Cheers, Ol' Bob

--part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 03:46:32 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net>

Bob Hand,

Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned.

Jim Walling

At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
>when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath.

>Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 05:49:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: 

Ol Bob,
     I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to 
but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion 
If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very 
little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have 
would be just the opposite from their normal effect.  Your drinking buddy was 
wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned 
with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only 
the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder 
and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I 
join with you in being thankful you are still with us.
     Best Wishes,
           Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec  6 05:20:11 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11>

Jack Rencher -

Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is
missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your
experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site.

My 2c worth & best regards -

Rich Young
-----------

> Ol Bob,
>      I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me
to
>      Best Wishes,
>            Jack
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:42:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>

Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:45:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>

Bob Hand,
Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:28:34 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen>

Dec.7, 1941

I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back
yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had
no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened
to everything that was said for the next several days.

My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he
wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.

Bill Owen




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:56:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure
scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:21:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>

Vern,

Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim Walling




At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob Hand,
>Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
>page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
>http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
>-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>            http://www.303rdBGA.com
>            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:13:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost>


> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums 
is
http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg  

At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated 
Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other 
people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume 
that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the 
Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight 
instructor before joining the 303rd.

But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering 
what they must have been thinking at the time.   



 

 Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net               
                           
 Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones            
 WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html   
 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 16:25:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>
References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost>

> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim,
That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still 
show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living 
or not.

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 17:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com>

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Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS 
roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several 
years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny 
days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the 
same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht

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Jim Walling

Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid

I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.

Harry D. Gobrecht

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 01:52:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you?
Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we =
went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a =
jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to =
Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on =
Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk
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My wife to be ate dinner after =
churchwith my=20
family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the =
seat -=20
just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the =
radio.=20
Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20
&  enlisted March 17.'42.


Ironically we were on the road to =
Minnesota to see=20
a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20
there.


Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20
Paulk


------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 02:03:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net>
Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK>

Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks
older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger
football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller
specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport,
Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry
medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp
Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that
he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often
thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this
happening would be far off the charts.  Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com>
To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs


> Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur)
>    2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>    3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen)
>    4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand)
>    5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net)
>    6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones)
>    7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
> Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Bill Owen" 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Dec.7, 1941
>
> I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our
back
> yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
> did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
> to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
> replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I
had
> no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and
listened
> to everything that was said for the next several days.
>
> My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
> parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
> few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how
he
> wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.
>
> Bill Owen
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> From: Bob Hand 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
> orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It
sure
> scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
> belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
> The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Vern,
>
> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was
our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if
he is living or dead.
>
> Jim Walling
>
>
>
>
> At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bob Hand,
> >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> >page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> >
> >-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
> >            http://www.303rdBGA.com
> >            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Bill Jones" 
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
>
>
> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> > those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> > the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> > was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums
> is
> http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg
>
> At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated
> Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other
> people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume
> that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the
> Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight
> instructor before joining the 303rd.
>
> But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering
> what they must have been thinking at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net
>
>  Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>  WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> > jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> > for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.
>
> Jim,
> That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still
> show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living
> or not.
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
>
>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy Audrey=20
To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941


It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not =
really!  Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had =
gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in =
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with =
lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the =
downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section =
of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were =
packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I =
think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted =
twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, =
there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would =
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military =
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one an =
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy Christenson
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----- Original Message -----=20

From: Leroy=20
Audrey 



Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM


Subject: Dec.7, 1941





It was Sunday and the day after a =
Saturday night=20
out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high =
school, now=20
at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show =
house in=20
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and=20
the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead =
singer Helen=20
O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room =
of my=20
buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the =
other guys=20
were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that =
night.=20
The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the =
program=20
was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell =
the=20
others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year =
we would=20
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one =
an=20
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training=20
school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training=20
accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day=20
changed the course of our lives.


LeRoy=20
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:53:08 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 16:53:18 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica
Message-ID: 

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As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state.
=20
North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small =
company has been in the process
of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US =
Navy loaned them their original
captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original =
they copied it and are very close
to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this =
design will take flight).
=20
I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of =
the old B-17 guys recalled encounters
with this jet,  most said it stood off and fired rockets into the =
formation.  Some veterans said it would make
one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away.  One veteran recalled if =
262's were encounter P-51's would circle
the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and =
shoot it down.
=20
Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a =
fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was
happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being =
used against out bombers thus many
B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today.
=20
The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due =
to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never =
break the sound barrier.=20
=20
Here are some pic's.

Greg Pierce

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:46:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so 
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2 
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH

------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary --  Webmaster, 
303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:58:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7
Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com>

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary
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Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, 
Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was 
stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and 
announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably 
were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand 
why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month 
our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended 
up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  

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Hi to all,

I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.

Bill D.  

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 22:21:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com>

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home 
on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message 
coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base 
imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that 
the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:00:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s
coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of
the pictures he took to be posted).  I remember him saying all they
could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the
Japanese planes.
Were any of you other 303rd members there that day?
=20
Duke Drewry

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Da=
d was at
Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so =
he
went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he =
took
to be posted).  I remember =
him
saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to =
fire
at the Japanese planes.



We=
re any
of you other 303rd members there that =
day?



 



Du=
ke Drewry









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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:36:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>

Greg:  Thanks for posting the information on the 262! 
What a project that must have been.  Any idea what
engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it
a full-size reproduction?

When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and
Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. 
Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough
titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno
engines.  I've also read that at the end of the war
the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since
our boys had decimated most of the German airfields.

Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys
building the 262.  I may be down there in the next
couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com>

Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 
was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 
Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
Terry Lucas


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: 




Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero. 


Brian S. McGuire








>From: Thor542086@aol.com 

>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com 

>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com 

>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed 

>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST 

> 

>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 

>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 

>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. 

>Terry Lucas 


MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service:  2 months FREE*


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth
In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address?

Thanks!
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary:  I was with a client today that would like to
join our chat ring.  His name is Hans Vogel and his
e-mail is:

hvogel@triverus.com

I will let him give his background.  Perhaps you could
send him a brief message on how to sign up.  It's been
so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how.

Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
website.  It's one of the best!

Thanks Gary!

Kevin



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com>

Thank you,

I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while.  Although WWII is
quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider
it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. 

Hans Vogel
Triverus LLC
907.830.9098
www.triverus.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the
following question?  Kevin


(I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262
attack near Dresden
(II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085-
crashed after mid air collision near Dresden
(III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq,
43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux
(IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed
because of Flak near Chemnitz
(V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger

All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden
marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. -
I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All
wreckages were found and now I try to collect
informations about the planes. Who can help? Just
email me: wellington@gmx.ch 



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>

May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land 
your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your 
Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when 
you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus 
May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very 
Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
     Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945
Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain>

Hello, All.
    I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out
as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one
of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that
were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945.
    The two planes involved were

SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas

EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler

    I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one
mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface
44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me
a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for
transport to a museum.
    This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German
side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays
alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains
of some of the aircraft.
    Anyone care to help out?
    By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being
recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't
ask Gary to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land
> your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your
> Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when
> you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus
> May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very
> Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
>    Jack Rencher
> 
Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged
as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form.
As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in
gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer
expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer
to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential
and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being  the facts of
life in "The Golden Age".  Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours,
with congratulations and thanks thrown in!  Cheers, Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com>


ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2A796.CB121C90
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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

--part1_11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 14:07:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:07:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Greetings!
In-Reply-To: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> As a kid in Brooklyn I shined shoes twice a day at the 77th Precinct.  Don't
laugh...one day I came out of the bank with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS on deposit!  One
morning while slapping on the black polish one of the cops came in with a real
ruffian of a kid who'd been hauled in for breaking and entering a number of
times.  Every cop that passed him in his seat gave him a set of knuckles on the
back of his head. (This was the old days!!) At one point it was decided to take
this habitual offender down town for some serious punishment.  As he was led
away in cuffs, he paused in the doorway, turned to the station house crew and
said in Brooklynese, "I WANNA WISH YEZ AWL A VERY  MERRY CHRIS'MAS!!

Gentlemen and Ladies of the 303rd, I wish the same to you.  May your New
Year be bright with promise and good health. Cheers!   Bob and Nyela Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 06:02:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:02:07 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 2003
Message-ID: <006301c2ab11$fe026a00$e291c8cf@altonmain>

Hope the holiday season finds all of you healthy, happy, and of good cheer.
Sometimes when all is not in place, this time of year can at least bring a
smile to your face, with the love and joy and sharing from others.
I wish you all the best in the coming new year, and give my thanks to all of
you vets for the fight you took to the enemy so many years ago.
We will not forget you.
Yours,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 11:52:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (hans reusink)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:52:31 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <001b01c2ab42$f1789d00$044179c3@default>

DEAR MEMBERS OF THE 303RD BOMBING GROUP.
I WANT TO WISH YOU ALL WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION A MERRY CHRISTMASTIME
AND FOR THE YEAR 2003 ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD AND MOST IMPORTANT A VERY
GOOD HEALTH.
HANS FROM HOLLAND.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 17:12:14 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:12:14 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <132.1872d797.2b39ef6e@aol.com>


thanks hans. cheery good days ahead for your's. spec campen


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 07:17:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Hoyt)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:17:42 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
Message-ID: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>

What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
a special meal or maybe a package from home?
By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!

Bill Hoyt



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:34:03 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:34:03 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <001101c2ac4c$989838c0$50bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Bill Hoyt wrote---> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth?
Anything stick out in
> your mind ....................?

Come to think of it --I remember only one Christmas - that of '42. I was in
Northampton on pass.  Stayed at the Red Cross. I was with Wayne Baker & Joe
Clay. Wayne had a date with an ATS girl and she had a friend who I finally
wound up with. Don't remember eating unless it was at the Red Cross but we
did go to a show.

Don't seem to recall any decoarations  [except betty Grable by several
bunks - including mine]. I seem to remember the Christmas days as just
another day.. I think I have a greeting card from the CO for one Christmas

Maurice



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:52:23 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:52:23 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
In-Reply-To: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>
Message-ID: 

> 
> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
> your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
> a special meal or maybe a package from home?
> By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!
> 
> Bill Hoyt
> 
> 
Yo, Bill, and the Merry and Happy be upon you and yours.  Our barracks
earned the name "Hell's Kitchen" because something fragrant was always being
heated up on the potbelly stove.  We all chipped in various meats, cheeses,
breads and crackers that arrived from home, and this was our initiation to
the fruitcake special...the round one with the hole in the middle that you
filled with Scotch...hoo boy!  As far as decorations go, if it could burn,
forget it, it was fuel for the potbelly.  You might recall that on the 24th
of Dec.,1944, we flew a mission to Merzhkausen and were  diverted to
Snetterton-Heath upon returning so we didn't get back until the following
day.  Barracksmates were Martin Dee, Mike Fink, Howard Reeves, Roger
Kuykendall, Dutch Rape, Mike McCarty, Bill Moody, Norman Klein, Clifford
Muth, Walt Dennis, Harold Orenstein and others....miracle I remembered that
many! All spirits were high.  Cheers and Great Remembrances....Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 20:20:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:20:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Jacks Location
Message-ID: <30.340ebfbc.2b3b6d04@aol.com>

To My Dear Friends,Relatives,Inlaws, Outlaws, & Others,
     This is to inform you of the following: I am in Mesa Arizona. It is 
nearly as cold as Boise Idaho. I have my e-mail up and running. I sincerely 
wish you all (I'm from the South) A very Happy today and an excellent and 
joyful upcoming New Year.  I plan on being back in Boise by 3 January 2003.
     After a quick shower I'm Off to a turkey feast with some dear friends 
and some strangers who I hope I can convert to the same. ( No Edith, not 
turkeys, Friends)
     Love & Best Wishes,
       Jack Rencher 
      


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 02:12:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:12:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <1be.191004fe.2b3bbf8d@aol.com>

Bill Hoyt,
     The best Christmas I ever had was 25 Dec 1944.  The weather in England 
was terrible and had been for several days. Our troops on the continent were 
in dire need of some Air support during the Battle of the Bulge. On Dec 24th 
it cleared enough over the continent we could see to bomb. We took off on 
instruments in horrible weather but got visual bomb runs. When we got back to 
England it was still so socked in at Molesworth there was no way we could 
have got a formation on the ground without 50% loses. We landed at an English 
RAF base. It was my 35th mission. I had finished my missions and was due to 
be rotated.
     I had flown several missions with new crews on their first mission when 
my crew did not fly so I had a few more mission than did my crew.  The 
English fed us and put us up for the night. They refueled our birds and 
loaded them with Bombs so we could fly another mission on Christmas Day.  The 
evening of the 24th our CO Col.Raper (Later Draper or Rader) came down with a 
brand new pilot to fly with my crew.
     I told him No. They had sweated out one new pilot and it was not fair 
they had to sweat out another one this late in their 35.  He said "Rencher 
what am I going to do? We have to put up every plane we can and he is the 
only spare first pilot I've got. I said" I will fly with them tomorrow. I 
don't want them flying with an inexperienced pilot. He said "Don't be a dam 
fool Rencher you have flown your missions and will get shot down just as sure 
as hell and it will be on my consciences for the rest of my life. I said Col. 
I am not near as likely to get shot down as a new pilot and if they got shot 
down because I wasn't with them it would be on my conscious the rest of my 
life and I am more interested of my conscious than I am of yours. He said all 
right Rencher but you are going to get shot down just as sure as Hell.
     All night that night I couldn't sleep. His prophecy kept going through 
my head. I had never had fear like that before even when we went to Merseburg 
and this one should have been a milk run.  We got up the next morning. 
Christmas 1944 and started the Engines. As we taxied out to take off I had a 
gut feeling I couldn't shake.  The CO's prediction kept going through my 
mind. I knew in my own mind I would be the hardest Pilot in the 8th AF to 
shoot down and this was a milk run, but I didn't believe me I guess.
     Just as we were getting ready to start taking off a message came over 
the radio. The advance of the German troops was stopped. They didn't need us 
now, etc., and due to the very bad weather the mission was scrubbed. Taxi 
back and park them.
We did. Col. Raper promised me if I would go home he would put an old 
experienced pilot with my crew. He did and I did. It was the very best 
Christmas Day I ever spent, before or since.
     Best Wishes.
         Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 17:35:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Fory Barton)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:35:26 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
Message-ID: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of =
SPAM.

Fory
Kuykendall's RO
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2ACD2.E25DC160
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My Christmas package from my wife =
contained, of=20
all things, a can of SPAM.


 


Fory


Kuykendall's =
RO


------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2ACD2.E25DC160--




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 22:14:13 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:14:13 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
In-Reply-To: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>
Message-ID: 

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

> My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of SPAM=
.
> =20
> Fory
> Kuykendall's RO
>=20

There=B9s an old saying: =B3Halitosis is better than no breath at all.=B2  Same
with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracksmate.  Happy New Year and
Cheers, Bob Hand

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable



Re: [303rd-Talk] Christmas



My Christmas package from my wife containe=
d, of all things, a can of SPAM.

 

Fory

Kuykendall's RO






There’s an old saying: “Halitosis is better than no breath at a=
ll.”  Same with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracks=
mate.  Happy New Year and Cheers, Bob Hand




--B_3123767653_15285070--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 27 06:21:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:21:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #797 - 4 msgs
Message-ID: <119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60@aol.com>

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To Jack Rencher,
       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 
should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was 
the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all 
about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of 
resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I 
don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have 
always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense 
of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.
                                                                             
Jack Amram

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To Jack Rencher,

       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.

                                                                             Jack Amram

--part1_119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 28 21:34:21 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Margaret Keating)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:34:21 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
Message-ID: <207F55D7-1AAC-11D7-921D-0003937677B4@cox.net>

Hi, Everyone!
I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!
Looking at the print of "Any Gum Chum", by Keith Hill, I was just 
wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out to visit 
the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy, etc. 
all the time? It looks as if they came right up to the hardstands ..did 
they? I would love to hear all about how the crews got along with the 
people and children around Molesworth.
Many thanks, and have a very Happy and Healthy New Year!
Margaret Keating
P.S. I'll do more translations next month.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 29 21:42:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:42:46 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum Chum
Message-ID: <001701c2af83$3ce7dc80$38bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Margaret Keating wrote--
 From: Margaret Keating 
 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
 Hi, Everyone!
I was just  wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out
to visit  the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy,
etc all the time?
Margaret Keating
===============================================
Since I was in Air Corp Supply I was never on a hard stand. Yes I
was subjeted to the "Any Gum Chum" roiutine. On my first pass into
Northampton we were surrounded by the "little people" on our exit from
the flicks [Picture show] Later in the war it c hanged to "Got a penny
mister".
One time I said i was sorry but I had no change. One of the boys sais " I
have!"
And pulled a handful of change from his pocket --Maurice J. Paulk



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 18:18:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost>

I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page 
here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me 
at glm@303rdBGA.com
This page should be a lot of fun.
Thanks!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 00:25:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the
festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or
bed and/or blanket, etc.  By this time the well known pot bellied stoves  had
burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer.  I gently lifted a
blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with
my head next  to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person
wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing
all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head.  By the time I got
back from First Aid my  blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve
sleeping in a chair in the day room.

Favorite song was Opus  Number One, by  Tommy Dorsey,  I believe.  The first
8 bars were sure to get your attention.    Speaking of Christmas...by all
means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!!     Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand                        



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  2 05:00:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com>

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The 
question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer 
crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to 
try and pick up the pieces. 

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had 
while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned 
chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots 
were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific 
airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at 
about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff 
roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately 
went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before 
the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under 
the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified 
course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the 
clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during 
interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of 
Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface 
locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control 
column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the 
locking pin removed. 

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were 
for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.



The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. 



For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.



It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.



Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.



There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. 



Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?



Cheers, Ol' Bob

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 03:46:32 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net>

Bob Hand,

Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned.

Jim Walling

At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
>when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath.

>Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 05:49:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: 

Ol Bob,
     I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to 
but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion 
If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very 
little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have 
would be just the opposite from their normal effect.  Your drinking buddy was 
wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned 
with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only 
the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder 
and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I 
join with you in being thankful you are still with us.
     Best Wishes,
           Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec  6 05:20:11 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11>

Jack Rencher -

Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is
missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your
experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site.

My 2c worth & best regards -

Rich Young
-----------

> Ol Bob,
>      I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me
to
>      Best Wishes,
>            Jack
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:42:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>

Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:45:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>

Bob Hand,
Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:28:34 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen>

Dec.7, 1941

I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back
yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had
no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened
to everything that was said for the next several days.

My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he
wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.

Bill Owen




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:56:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure
scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:21:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>

Vern,

Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim Walling




At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob Hand,
>Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
>page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
>http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
>-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>            http://www.303rdBGA.com
>            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:13:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost>


> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums 
is
http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg  

At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated 
Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other 
people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume 
that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the 
Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight 
instructor before joining the 303rd.

But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering 
what they must have been thinking at the time.   



 

 Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net               
                           
 Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones            
 WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html   
 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 16:25:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>
References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost>

> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim,
That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still 
show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living 
or not.

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 17:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com>

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Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS 
roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several 
years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny 
days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the 
same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht

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Jim Walling

Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid

I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.

Harry D. Gobrecht

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 01:52:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you?
Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we =
went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a =
jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to =
Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on =
Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk
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My wife to be ate dinner after =
churchwith my=20
family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the =
seat -=20
just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the =
radio.=20
Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20
&  enlisted March 17.'42.


Ironically we were on the road to =
Minnesota to see=20
a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20
there.


Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20
Paulk


------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 02:03:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net>
Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK>

Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks
older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger
football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller
specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport,
Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry
medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp
Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that
he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often
thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this
happening would be far off the charts.  Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com>
To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs


> Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur)
>    2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>    3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen)
>    4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand)
>    5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net)
>    6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones)
>    7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
> Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Bill Owen" 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Dec.7, 1941
>
> I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our
back
> yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
> did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
> to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
> replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I
had
> no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and
listened
> to everything that was said for the next several days.
>
> My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
> parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
> few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how
he
> wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.
>
> Bill Owen
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> From: Bob Hand 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
> orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It
sure
> scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
> belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
> The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Vern,
>
> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was
our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if
he is living or dead.
>
> Jim Walling
>
>
>
>
> At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bob Hand,
> >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> >page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> >
> >-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
> >            http://www.303rdBGA.com
> >            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Bill Jones" 
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
>
>
> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> > those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> > the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> > was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums
> is
> http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg
>
> At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated
> Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other
> people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume
> that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the
> Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight
> instructor before joining the 303rd.
>
> But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering
> what they must have been thinking at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net
>
>  Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>  WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> > jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> > for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.
>
> Jim,
> That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still
> show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living
> or not.
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
>
>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy Audrey=20
To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941


It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not =
really!  Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had =
gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in =
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with =
lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the =
downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section =
of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were =
packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I =
think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted =
twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, =
there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would =
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military =
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one an =
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy Christenson
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----- Original Message -----=20

From: Leroy=20
Audrey 



Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM


Subject: Dec.7, 1941





It was Sunday and the day after a =
Saturday night=20
out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high =
school, now=20
at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show =
house in=20
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and=20
the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead =
singer Helen=20
O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room =
of my=20
buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the =
other guys=20
were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that =
night.=20
The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the =
program=20
was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell =
the=20
others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year =
we would=20
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one =
an=20
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training=20
school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training=20
accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day=20
changed the course of our lives.


LeRoy=20
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:53:08 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 16:53:18 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica
Message-ID: 

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As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state.
=20
North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small =
company has been in the process
of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US =
Navy loaned them their original
captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original =
they copied it and are very close
to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this =
design will take flight).
=20
I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of =
the old B-17 guys recalled encounters
with this jet,  most said it stood off and fired rockets into the =
formation.  Some veterans said it would make
one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away.  One veteran recalled if =
262's were encounter P-51's would circle
the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and =
shoot it down.
=20
Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a =
fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was
happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being =
used against out bombers thus many
B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today.
=20
The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due =
to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never =
break the sound barrier.=20
=20
Here are some pic's.

Greg Pierce

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:46:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so 
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2 
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH

------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary --  Webmaster, 
303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:58:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7
Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com>

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary
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Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, 
Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was 
stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and 
announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably 
were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand 
why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month 
our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended 
up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  

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Hi to all,

I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.

Bill D.  

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 22:21:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com>

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home 
on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message 
coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base 
imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that 
the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:00:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s
coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of
the pictures he took to be posted).  I remember him saying all they
could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the
Japanese planes.
Were any of you other 303rd members there that day?
=20
Duke Drewry

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Da=
d was at
Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so =
he
went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he =
took
to be posted).  I remember =
him
saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to =
fire
at the Japanese planes.



We=
re any
of you other 303rd members there that =
day?



 



Du=
ke Drewry









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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:36:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>

Greg:  Thanks for posting the information on the 262! 
What a project that must have been.  Any idea what
engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it
a full-size reproduction?

When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and
Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. 
Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough
titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno
engines.  I've also read that at the end of the war
the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since
our boys had decimated most of the German airfields.

Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys
building the 262.  I may be down there in the next
couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com>

Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 
was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 
Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
Terry Lucas


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: 




Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero. 


Brian S. McGuire








>From: Thor542086@aol.com 

>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com 

>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com 

>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed 

>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST 

> 

>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 

>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 

>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. 

>Terry Lucas 


MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service:  2 months FREE*


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth
In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address?

Thanks!
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary:  I was with a client today that would like to
join our chat ring.  His name is Hans Vogel and his
e-mail is:

hvogel@triverus.com

I will let him give his background.  Perhaps you could
send him a brief message on how to sign up.  It's been
so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how.

Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
website.  It's one of the best!

Thanks Gary!

Kevin



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com>

Thank you,

I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while.  Although WWII is
quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider
it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. 

Hans Vogel
Triverus LLC
907.830.9098
www.triverus.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the
following question?  Kevin


(I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262
attack near Dresden
(II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085-
crashed after mid air collision near Dresden
(III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq,
43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux
(IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed
because of Flak near Chemnitz
(V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger

All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden
marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. -
I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All
wreckages were found and now I try to collect
informations about the planes. Who can help? Just
email me: wellington@gmx.ch 



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>

May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land 
your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your 
Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when 
you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus 
May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very 
Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
     Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945
Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain>

Hello, All.
    I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out
as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one
of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that
were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945.
    The two planes involved were

SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas

EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler

    I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one
mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface
44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me
a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for
transport to a museum.
    This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German
side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays
alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains
of some of the aircraft.
    Anyone care to help out?
    By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being
recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't
ask Gary to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land
> your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your
> Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when
> you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus
> May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very
> Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
>    Jack Rencher
> 
Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged
as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form.
As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in
gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer
expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer
to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential
and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being  the facts of
life in "The Golden Age".  Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours,
with congratulations and thanks thrown in!  Cheers, Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com>


ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2A796.CB121C90
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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

--part1_11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 14:07:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:07:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Greetings!
In-Reply-To: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> As a kid in Brooklyn I shined shoes twice a day at the 77th Precinct.  Don't
laugh...one day I came out of the bank with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS on deposit!  One
morning while slapping on the black polish one of the cops came in with a real
ruffian of a kid who'd been hauled in for breaking and entering a number of
times.  Every cop that passed him in his seat gave him a set of knuckles on the
back of his head. (This was the old days!!) At one point it was decided to take
this habitual offender down town for some serious punishment.  As he was led
away in cuffs, he paused in the doorway, turned to the station house crew and
said in Brooklynese, "I WANNA WISH YEZ AWL A VERY  MERRY CHRIS'MAS!!

Gentlemen and Ladies of the 303rd, I wish the same to you.  May your New
Year be bright with promise and good health. Cheers!   Bob and Nyela Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 06:02:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:02:07 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 2003
Message-ID: <006301c2ab11$fe026a00$e291c8cf@altonmain>

Hope the holiday season finds all of you healthy, happy, and of good cheer.
Sometimes when all is not in place, this time of year can at least bring a
smile to your face, with the love and joy and sharing from others.
I wish you all the best in the coming new year, and give my thanks to all of
you vets for the fight you took to the enemy so many years ago.
We will not forget you.
Yours,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 11:52:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (hans reusink)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:52:31 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <001b01c2ab42$f1789d00$044179c3@default>

DEAR MEMBERS OF THE 303RD BOMBING GROUP.
I WANT TO WISH YOU ALL WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION A MERRY CHRISTMASTIME
AND FOR THE YEAR 2003 ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD AND MOST IMPORTANT A VERY
GOOD HEALTH.
HANS FROM HOLLAND.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 17:12:14 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:12:14 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <132.1872d797.2b39ef6e@aol.com>


thanks hans. cheery good days ahead for your's. spec campen


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 07:17:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Hoyt)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:17:42 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
Message-ID: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>

What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
a special meal or maybe a package from home?
By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!

Bill Hoyt



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:34:03 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:34:03 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <001101c2ac4c$989838c0$50bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Bill Hoyt wrote---> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth?
Anything stick out in
> your mind ....................?

Come to think of it --I remember only one Christmas - that of '42. I was in
Northampton on pass.  Stayed at the Red Cross. I was with Wayne Baker & Joe
Clay. Wayne had a date with an ATS girl and she had a friend who I finally
wound up with. Don't remember eating unless it was at the Red Cross but we
did go to a show.

Don't seem to recall any decoarations  [except betty Grable by several
bunks - including mine]. I seem to remember the Christmas days as just
another day.. I think I have a greeting card from the CO for one Christmas

Maurice



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:52:23 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:52:23 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
In-Reply-To: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>
Message-ID: 

> 
> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
> your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
> a special meal or maybe a package from home?
> By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!
> 
> Bill Hoyt
> 
> 
Yo, Bill, and the Merry and Happy be upon you and yours.  Our barracks
earned the name "Hell's Kitchen" because something fragrant was always being
heated up on the potbelly stove.  We all chipped in various meats, cheeses,
breads and crackers that arrived from home, and this was our initiation to
the fruitcake special...the round one with the hole in the middle that you
filled with Scotch...hoo boy!  As far as decorations go, if it could burn,
forget it, it was fuel for the potbelly.  You might recall that on the 24th
of Dec.,1944, we flew a mission to Merzhkausen and were  diverted to
Snetterton-Heath upon returning so we didn't get back until the following
day.  Barracksmates were Martin Dee, Mike Fink, Howard Reeves, Roger
Kuykendall, Dutch Rape, Mike McCarty, Bill Moody, Norman Klein, Clifford
Muth, Walt Dennis, Harold Orenstein and others....miracle I remembered that
many! All spirits were high.  Cheers and Great Remembrances....Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 20:20:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:20:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Jacks Location
Message-ID: <30.340ebfbc.2b3b6d04@aol.com>

To My Dear Friends,Relatives,Inlaws, Outlaws, & Others,
     This is to inform you of the following: I am in Mesa Arizona. It is 
nearly as cold as Boise Idaho. I have my e-mail up and running. I sincerely 
wish you all (I'm from the South) A very Happy today and an excellent and 
joyful upcoming New Year.  I plan on being back in Boise by 3 January 2003.
     After a quick shower I'm Off to a turkey feast with some dear friends 
and some strangers who I hope I can convert to the same. ( No Edith, not 
turkeys, Friends)
     Love & Best Wishes,
       Jack Rencher 
      


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 02:12:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:12:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <1be.191004fe.2b3bbf8d@aol.com>

Bill Hoyt,
     The best Christmas I ever had was 25 Dec 1944.  The weather in England 
was terrible and had been for several days. Our troops on the continent were 
in dire need of some Air support during the Battle of the Bulge. On Dec 24th 
it cleared enough over the continent we could see to bomb. We took off on 
instruments in horrible weather but got visual bomb runs. When we got back to 
England it was still so socked in at Molesworth there was no way we could 
have got a formation on the ground without 50% loses. We landed at an English 
RAF base. It was my 35th mission. I had finished my missions and was due to 
be rotated.
     I had flown several missions with new crews on their first mission when 
my crew did not fly so I had a few more mission than did my crew.  The 
English fed us and put us up for the night. They refueled our birds and 
loaded them with Bombs so we could fly another mission on Christmas Day.  The 
evening of the 24th our CO Col.Raper (Later Draper or Rader) came down with a 
brand new pilot to fly with my crew.
     I told him No. They had sweated out one new pilot and it was not fair 
they had to sweat out another one this late in their 35.  He said "Rencher 
what am I going to do? We have to put up every plane we can and he is the 
only spare first pilot I've got. I said" I will fly with them tomorrow. I 
don't want them flying with an inexperienced pilot. He said "Don't be a dam 
fool Rencher you have flown your missions and will get shot down just as sure 
as hell and it will be on my consciences for the rest of my life. I said Col. 
I am not near as likely to get shot down as a new pilot and if they got shot 
down because I wasn't with them it would be on my conscious the rest of my 
life and I am more interested of my conscious than I am of yours. He said all 
right Rencher but you are going to get shot down just as sure as Hell.
     All night that night I couldn't sleep. His prophecy kept going through 
my head. I had never had fear like that before even when we went to Merseburg 
and this one should have been a milk run.  We got up the next morning. 
Christmas 1944 and started the Engines. As we taxied out to take off I had a 
gut feeling I couldn't shake.  The CO's prediction kept going through my 
mind. I knew in my own mind I would be the hardest Pilot in the 8th AF to 
shoot down and this was a milk run, but I didn't believe me I guess.
     Just as we were getting ready to start taking off a message came over 
the radio. The advance of the German troops was stopped. They didn't need us 
now, etc., and due to the very bad weather the mission was scrubbed. Taxi 
back and park them.
We did. Col. Raper promised me if I would go home he would put an old 
experienced pilot with my crew. He did and I did. It was the very best 
Christmas Day I ever spent, before or since.
     Best Wishes.
         Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 17:35:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Fory Barton)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:35:26 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
Message-ID: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of =
SPAM.

Fory
Kuykendall's RO
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My Christmas package from my wife =
contained, of=20
all things, a can of SPAM.


 


Fory


Kuykendall's =
RO


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 22:14:13 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:14:13 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
In-Reply-To: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>
Message-ID: 

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

> My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of SPAM=
.
> =20
> Fory
> Kuykendall's RO
>=20

There=B9s an old saying: =B3Halitosis is better than no breath at all.=B2  Same
with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracksmate.  Happy New Year and
Cheers, Bob Hand

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable



Re: [303rd-Talk] Christmas



My Christmas package from my wife containe=
d, of all things, a can of SPAM.

 

Fory

Kuykendall's RO






There’s an old saying: “Halitosis is better than no breath at a=
ll.”  Same with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracks=
mate.  Happy New Year and Cheers, Bob Hand




--B_3123767653_15285070--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 27 06:21:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:21:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #797 - 4 msgs
Message-ID: <119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60@aol.com>

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To Jack Rencher,
       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 
should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was 
the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all 
about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of 
resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I 
don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have 
always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense 
of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.
                                                                             
Jack Amram

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To Jack Rencher,

       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.

                                                                             Jack Amram

--part1_119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 28 21:34:21 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Margaret Keating)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:34:21 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
Message-ID: <207F55D7-1AAC-11D7-921D-0003937677B4@cox.net>

Hi, Everyone!
I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!
Looking at the print of "Any Gum Chum", by Keith Hill, I was just 
wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out to visit 
the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy, etc. 
all the time? It looks as if they came right up to the hardstands ..did 
they? I would love to hear all about how the crews got along with the 
people and children around Molesworth.
Many thanks, and have a very Happy and Healthy New Year!
Margaret Keating
P.S. I'll do more translations next month.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 29 21:42:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:42:46 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum Chum
Message-ID: <001701c2af83$3ce7dc80$38bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Margaret Keating wrote--
 From: Margaret Keating 
 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
 Hi, Everyone!
I was just  wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out
to visit  the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy,
etc all the time?
Margaret Keating
===============================================
Since I was in Air Corp Supply I was never on a hard stand. Yes I
was subjeted to the "Any Gum Chum" roiutine. On my first pass into
Northampton we were surrounded by the "little people" on our exit from
the flicks [Picture show] Later in the war it c hanged to "Got a penny
mister".
One time I said i was sorry but I had no change. One of the boys sais " I
have!"
And pulled a handful of change from his pocket --Maurice J. Paulk



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 30 20:53:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tooley, Dave)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:53:52 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
Message-ID: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>

Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.

Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
Did you ever trade supplies?  

How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
base newspaper? 

Thanks and have great New Year!!

Dave




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 07:48:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:48:41 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Taps - Carson
Message-ID: <005b01c2b0a1$0a3369c0$9c91c8cf@altonmain>

CARSON, John Don, of Wooster, Ohio, died August 17, 2002.  A member of the
North Central Ohio Chapter, he served in the 360 BS, 303 BG, and was a POW
in Luft 3 and 10B.  He is survived by his wife of 54 years, Mary Jane.

I found the above announcement at the AX-POW site. I don't believe it has
been announced here yet, so I thought I would pass it on.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Box 855
Salt Spring Island, BC, Can V8K2W3
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:54:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (matthias leich)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] CRASHSITE FROM BEETY JANE
Message-ID: <001201c2b0dc$93b93f40$166907d5@juliajmlyorzol>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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HI ,
MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM RESEARCHER FOR TWO MUSEUM. I LIVING IN =
OHRDRUF.
OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES NORTH FROM OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE =
CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS WAS I FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE =
MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.
BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR FORCE  CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS =
CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. PLEASE CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT =
ADRESS?
MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE CRASHSITE? LET ME KNOW THIS AND I =
SEND PER E-MAIL.
 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR ALL PILOTS AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.
WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM LUFTWAFFE JG4 AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP =
AND=20
FROM THE HELLENCREW. =20
WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE FOUND REMAINS AND BONES FROM =
WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. THIS WAS RESULT =
FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM KOVARSKA =
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN OBERHOF.
OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY.=20

BYE=20

MATTHIAS LEICH          ( SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH)

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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HI ,


MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM =
RESEARCHER FOR TWO=20
MUSEUM. I LIVING IN OHRDRUF.


OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES =
NORTH FROM=20
OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS =
WAS I=20
FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.


BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR =
FORCE =20
CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. =
PLEASE=20
CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT ADRESS?


MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE =
CRASHSITE?=20
LET ME KNOW THIS AND I SEND PER E-MAIL.


 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR =
ALL PILOTS=20
AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.


WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM =
LUFTWAFFE JG4=20
AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP AND 


FROM THE HELLENCREW. =
 


WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE =
FOUND REMAINS=20
AND BONES FROM WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. =
THIS WAS=20
RESULT FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM =
KOVARSKA=20
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN=20
OBERHOF.


OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY. =



 


BYE 


 


MATTHIAS=20
LEICH          ( SORRY FOR =
MY BAD=20
ENGLISH)


------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2B0E4.F4893520--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 13:28:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

> Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
> say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.
> 
> Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
> going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
> Did you ever trade supplies?
> 
> How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
> base newspaper? 
> 
> Thanks and have great New Year!!
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:58:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:58:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

>Seems to me there was little "comparing" except on pass in London where you
might chance to meet an old buddy from training and check up on
classmates...like who bought the farm, who finished 35, stuff like that.
Otherwise, at least in my case, it was the pursuit of happiness or shopping or
buying an Eisenhower jacket, or watching the clock for that last train back to
Kettering. I tried to leave my worries at the interrogation table and not
contemplate how bad the next mission might be.  Cheers and Happy New Year... Bob
Hand  
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 18:34:47 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:34:47 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,
Message-ID: <15b.19b817d6.2b433d47@aol.com>

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when 
talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all 
of y'all.'
Bill D.

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all of y'all.'

Bill D.

--part1_15b.19b817d6.2b433d47_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:12:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:12:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to determine if I
have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com



-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com






From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:15:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tom Beard)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:15:40 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Waist Gunners
Message-ID: <000901c2b111$c5ccf820$460c6ed8@webshark.com>

My dad was with the 360th sq of the 303rd. He was a waist gunner on "Duffy's
Tavern". My question is did a waist gunner always sit on a particular side
of the B-17, or did they move around? I am building a model of "Duffy's
Tavern", and want to know. Thanks...





From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:45:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:45:07 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
References: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <000701c2b115$e7cb86e0$7068db40@billowen>

Patrick,
If you will go to the 303rd web site and click on LINKS you will find some
links to medals and decorations. Maybe you will find what you are looking
for.
Best Wishes,
Bill Owen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Egan" 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


>
> Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to
determine if I
> have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
>
>
> I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems
from his days in
> the 8th
>
> Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
> I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at
http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg
>
>
>
> If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
> http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg
>
> Thanks
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 18:18:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost>

I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page 
here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me 
at glm@303rdBGA.com
This page should be a lot of fun.
Thanks!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 00:25:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the
festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or
bed and/or blanket, etc.  By this time the well known pot bellied stoves  had
burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer.  I gently lifted a
blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with
my head next  to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person
wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing
all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head.  By the time I got
back from First Aid my  blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve
sleeping in a chair in the day room.

Favorite song was Opus  Number One, by  Tommy Dorsey,  I believe.  The first
8 bars were sure to get your attention.    Speaking of Christmas...by all
means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!!     Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand                        



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  2 05:00:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com>

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The 
question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer 
crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to 
try and pick up the pieces. 

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had 
while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned 
chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots 
were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific 
airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at 
about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff 
roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately 
went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before 
the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under 
the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified 
course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the 
clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during 
interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of 
Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface 
locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control 
column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the 
locking pin removed. 

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were 
for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.



The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. 



For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.



It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.



Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.



There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. 



Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?



Cheers, Ol' Bob

--part1_159.184723b1.2b1c4309_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 03:46:32 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net>

Bob Hand,

Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned.

Jim Walling

At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
>when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath.

>Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 05:49:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: 

Ol Bob,
     I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to 
but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion 
If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very 
little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have 
would be just the opposite from their normal effect.  Your drinking buddy was 
wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned 
with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only 
the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder 
and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I 
join with you in being thankful you are still with us.
     Best Wishes,
           Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec  6 05:20:11 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11>

Jack Rencher -

Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is
missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your
experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site.

My 2c worth & best regards -

Rich Young
-----------

> Ol Bob,
>      I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me
to
>      Best Wishes,
>            Jack
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:42:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>

Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:45:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>

Bob Hand,
Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:28:34 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen>

Dec.7, 1941

I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back
yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had
no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened
to everything that was said for the next several days.

My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he
wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.

Bill Owen




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:56:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure
scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:21:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>

Vern,

Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim Walling




At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob Hand,
>Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
>page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
>http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
>-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>            http://www.303rdBGA.com
>            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:13:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost>


> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums 
is
http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg  

At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated 
Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other 
people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume 
that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the 
Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight 
instructor before joining the 303rd.

But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering 
what they must have been thinking at the time.   



 

 Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net               
                           
 Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones            
 WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html   
 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 16:25:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>
References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost>

> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim,
That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still 
show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living 
or not.

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 17:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com>

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary
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Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS 
roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several 
years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny 
days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the 
same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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Jim Walling

Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid

I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.

Harry D. Gobrecht

--part1_173.12932f5d.2b24e117_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 01:52:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you?
Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman>

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My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we =
went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a =
jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to =
Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on =
Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600
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My wife to be ate dinner after =
churchwith my=20
family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the =
seat -=20
just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the =
radio.=20
Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20
&  enlisted March 17.'42.


Ironically we were on the road to =
Minnesota to see=20
a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20
there.


Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20
Paulk


------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C29EF3.69427600--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 02:03:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net>
Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK>

Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks
older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger
football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller
specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport,
Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry
medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp
Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that
he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often
thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this
happening would be far off the charts.  Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com>
To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs


> Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur)
>    2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>    3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen)
>    4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand)
>    5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net)
>    6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones)
>    7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
> Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Bill Owen" 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Dec.7, 1941
>
> I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our
back
> yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
> did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
> to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
> replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I
had
> no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and
listened
> to everything that was said for the next several days.
>
> My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
> parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
> few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how
he
> wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.
>
> Bill Owen
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> From: Bob Hand 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
> orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It
sure
> scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
> belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
> The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Vern,
>
> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was
our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if
he is living or dead.
>
> Jim Walling
>
>
>
>
> At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bob Hand,
> >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> >page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> >
> >-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
> >            http://www.303rdBGA.com
> >            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Bill Jones" 
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
>
>
> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> > those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> > the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> > was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums
> is
> http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg
>
> At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated
> Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other
> people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume
> that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the
> Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight
> instructor before joining the 303rd.
>
> But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering
> what they must have been thinking at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net
>
>  Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>  WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> > jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> > for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.
>
> Jim,
> That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still
> show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living
> or not.
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
>
>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy Audrey=20
To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941


It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not =
really!  Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had =
gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in =
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with =
lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the =
downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section =
of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were =
packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I =
think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted =
twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, =
there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would =
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military =
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one an =
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy Christenson
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----=20

From: Leroy=20
Audrey 



Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM


Subject: Dec.7, 1941





It was Sunday and the day after a =
Saturday night=20
out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high =
school, now=20
at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show =
house in=20
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and=20
the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead =
singer Helen=20
O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room =
of my=20
buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the =
other guys=20
were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that =
night.=20
The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the =
program=20
was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell =
the=20
others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year =
we would=20
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one =
an=20
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training=20
school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training=20
accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day=20
changed the course of our lives.


LeRoy=20
Christenson


------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C29F07.BC9712C0--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:53:08 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 16:53:18 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state.
=20
North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small =
company has been in the process
of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US =
Navy loaned them their original
captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original =
they copied it and are very close
to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this =
design will take flight).
=20
I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of =
the old B-17 guys recalled encounters
with this jet,  most said it stood off and fired rockets into the =
formation.  Some veterans said it would make
one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away.  One veteran recalled if =
262's were encounter P-51's would circle
the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and =
shoot it down.
=20
Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a =
fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was
happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being =
used against out bombers thus many
B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today.
=20
The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due =
to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never =
break the sound barrier.=20
=20
Here are some pic's.

Greg Pierce

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FA3.79726200--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:46:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so 
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2 
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH

------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary --  Webmaster, 
303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:58:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7
Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com>

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Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, 
Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was 
stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and 
announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably 
were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand 
why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month 
our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended 
up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  

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Hi to all,

I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.

Bill D.  

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 22:21:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com>

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home 
on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message 
coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base 
imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that 
the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:00:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s
coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of
the pictures he took to be posted).  I remember him saying all they
could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the
Japanese planes.
Were any of you other 303rd members there that day?
=20
Duke Drewry

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Da=
d was at
Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so =
he
went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he =
took
to be posted).  I remember =
him
saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to =
fire
at the Japanese planes.



We=
re any
of you other 303rd members there that =
day?



 



Du=
ke Drewry









------_=_NextPart_001_01C29FB5.4582E370--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:36:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>

Greg:  Thanks for posting the information on the 262! 
What a project that must have been.  Any idea what
engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it
a full-size reproduction?

When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and
Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. 
Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough
titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno
engines.  I've also read that at the end of the war
the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since
our boys had decimated most of the German airfields.

Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys
building the 262.  I may be down there in the next
couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit.
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com>

Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 
was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 
Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
Terry Lucas


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: 




Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero. 


Brian S. McGuire








>From: Thor542086@aol.com 

>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com 

>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com 

>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed 

>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST 

> 

>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 

>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 

>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. 

>Terry Lucas 


MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service:  2 months FREE*


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth
In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address?

Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary:  I was with a client today that would like to
join our chat ring.  His name is Hans Vogel and his
e-mail is:

hvogel@triverus.com

I will let him give his background.  Perhaps you could
send him a brief message on how to sign up.  It's been
so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how.

Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
website.  It's one of the best!

Thanks Gary!

Kevin



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com>

Thank you,

I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while.  Although WWII is
quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider
it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. 

Hans Vogel
Triverus LLC
907.830.9098
www.triverus.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the
following question?  Kevin


(I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262
attack near Dresden
(II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085-
crashed after mid air collision near Dresden
(III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq,
43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux
(IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed
because of Flak near Chemnitz
(V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger

All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden
marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. -
I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All
wreckages were found and now I try to collect
informations about the planes. Who can help? Just
email me: wellington@gmx.ch 



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>

May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land 
your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your 
Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when 
you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus 
May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very 
Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
     Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945
Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain>

Hello, All.
    I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out
as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one
of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that
were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945.
    The two planes involved were

SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas

EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler

    I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one
mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface
44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me
a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for
transport to a museum.
    This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German
side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays
alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains
of some of the aircraft.
    Anyone care to help out?
    By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being
recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't
ask Gary to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land
> your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your
> Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when
> you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus
> May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very
> Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
>    Jack Rencher
> 
Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged
as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form.
As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in
gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer
expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer
to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential
and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being  the facts of
life in "The Golden Age".  Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours,
with congratulations and thanks thrown in!  Cheers, Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com>


ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

--part1_15c.189f63af.2b322153_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

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I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 14:07:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:07:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Greetings!
In-Reply-To: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> As a kid in Brooklyn I shined shoes twice a day at the 77th Precinct.  Don't
laugh...one day I came out of the bank with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS on deposit!  One
morning while slapping on the black polish one of the cops came in with a real
ruffian of a kid who'd been hauled in for breaking and entering a number of
times.  Every cop that passed him in his seat gave him a set of knuckles on the
back of his head. (This was the old days!!) At one point it was decided to take
this habitual offender down town for some serious punishment.  As he was led
away in cuffs, he paused in the doorway, turned to the station house crew and
said in Brooklynese, "I WANNA WISH YEZ AWL A VERY  MERRY CHRIS'MAS!!

Gentlemen and Ladies of the 303rd, I wish the same to you.  May your New
Year be bright with promise and good health. Cheers!   Bob and Nyela Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 06:02:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:02:07 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 2003
Message-ID: <006301c2ab11$fe026a00$e291c8cf@altonmain>

Hope the holiday season finds all of you healthy, happy, and of good cheer.
Sometimes when all is not in place, this time of year can at least bring a
smile to your face, with the love and joy and sharing from others.
I wish you all the best in the coming new year, and give my thanks to all of
you vets for the fight you took to the enemy so many years ago.
We will not forget you.
Yours,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 11:52:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (hans reusink)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:52:31 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <001b01c2ab42$f1789d00$044179c3@default>

DEAR MEMBERS OF THE 303RD BOMBING GROUP.
I WANT TO WISH YOU ALL WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION A MERRY CHRISTMASTIME
AND FOR THE YEAR 2003 ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD AND MOST IMPORTANT A VERY
GOOD HEALTH.
HANS FROM HOLLAND.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 17:12:14 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:12:14 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <132.1872d797.2b39ef6e@aol.com>


thanks hans. cheery good days ahead for your's. spec campen


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 07:17:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Hoyt)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:17:42 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
Message-ID: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>

What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
a special meal or maybe a package from home?
By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!

Bill Hoyt



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:34:03 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:34:03 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <001101c2ac4c$989838c0$50bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Bill Hoyt wrote---> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth?
Anything stick out in
> your mind ....................?

Come to think of it --I remember only one Christmas - that of '42. I was in
Northampton on pass.  Stayed at the Red Cross. I was with Wayne Baker & Joe
Clay. Wayne had a date with an ATS girl and she had a friend who I finally
wound up with. Don't remember eating unless it was at the Red Cross but we
did go to a show.

Don't seem to recall any decoarations  [except betty Grable by several
bunks - including mine]. I seem to remember the Christmas days as just
another day.. I think I have a greeting card from the CO for one Christmas

Maurice



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:52:23 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:52:23 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
In-Reply-To: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>
Message-ID: 

> 
> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
> your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
> a special meal or maybe a package from home?
> By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!
> 
> Bill Hoyt
> 
> 
Yo, Bill, and the Merry and Happy be upon you and yours.  Our barracks
earned the name "Hell's Kitchen" because something fragrant was always being
heated up on the potbelly stove.  We all chipped in various meats, cheeses,
breads and crackers that arrived from home, and this was our initiation to
the fruitcake special...the round one with the hole in the middle that you
filled with Scotch...hoo boy!  As far as decorations go, if it could burn,
forget it, it was fuel for the potbelly.  You might recall that on the 24th
of Dec.,1944, we flew a mission to Merzhkausen and were  diverted to
Snetterton-Heath upon returning so we didn't get back until the following
day.  Barracksmates were Martin Dee, Mike Fink, Howard Reeves, Roger
Kuykendall, Dutch Rape, Mike McCarty, Bill Moody, Norman Klein, Clifford
Muth, Walt Dennis, Harold Orenstein and others....miracle I remembered that
many! All spirits were high.  Cheers and Great Remembrances....Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 20:20:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:20:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Jacks Location
Message-ID: <30.340ebfbc.2b3b6d04@aol.com>

To My Dear Friends,Relatives,Inlaws, Outlaws, & Others,
     This is to inform you of the following: I am in Mesa Arizona. It is 
nearly as cold as Boise Idaho. I have my e-mail up and running. I sincerely 
wish you all (I'm from the South) A very Happy today and an excellent and 
joyful upcoming New Year.  I plan on being back in Boise by 3 January 2003.
     After a quick shower I'm Off to a turkey feast with some dear friends 
and some strangers who I hope I can convert to the same. ( No Edith, not 
turkeys, Friends)
     Love & Best Wishes,
       Jack Rencher 
      


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 02:12:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:12:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <1be.191004fe.2b3bbf8d@aol.com>

Bill Hoyt,
     The best Christmas I ever had was 25 Dec 1944.  The weather in England 
was terrible and had been for several days. Our troops on the continent were 
in dire need of some Air support during the Battle of the Bulge. On Dec 24th 
it cleared enough over the continent we could see to bomb. We took off on 
instruments in horrible weather but got visual bomb runs. When we got back to 
England it was still so socked in at Molesworth there was no way we could 
have got a formation on the ground without 50% loses. We landed at an English 
RAF base. It was my 35th mission. I had finished my missions and was due to 
be rotated.
     I had flown several missions with new crews on their first mission when 
my crew did not fly so I had a few more mission than did my crew.  The 
English fed us and put us up for the night. They refueled our birds and 
loaded them with Bombs so we could fly another mission on Christmas Day.  The 
evening of the 24th our CO Col.Raper (Later Draper or Rader) came down with a 
brand new pilot to fly with my crew.
     I told him No. They had sweated out one new pilot and it was not fair 
they had to sweat out another one this late in their 35.  He said "Rencher 
what am I going to do? We have to put up every plane we can and he is the 
only spare first pilot I've got. I said" I will fly with them tomorrow. I 
don't want them flying with an inexperienced pilot. He said "Don't be a dam 
fool Rencher you have flown your missions and will get shot down just as sure 
as hell and it will be on my consciences for the rest of my life. I said Col. 
I am not near as likely to get shot down as a new pilot and if they got shot 
down because I wasn't with them it would be on my conscious the rest of my 
life and I am more interested of my conscious than I am of yours. He said all 
right Rencher but you are going to get shot down just as sure as Hell.
     All night that night I couldn't sleep. His prophecy kept going through 
my head. I had never had fear like that before even when we went to Merseburg 
and this one should have been a milk run.  We got up the next morning. 
Christmas 1944 and started the Engines. As we taxied out to take off I had a 
gut feeling I couldn't shake.  The CO's prediction kept going through my 
mind. I knew in my own mind I would be the hardest Pilot in the 8th AF to 
shoot down and this was a milk run, but I didn't believe me I guess.
     Just as we were getting ready to start taking off a message came over 
the radio. The advance of the German troops was stopped. They didn't need us 
now, etc., and due to the very bad weather the mission was scrubbed. Taxi 
back and park them.
We did. Col. Raper promised me if I would go home he would put an old 
experienced pilot with my crew. He did and I did. It was the very best 
Christmas Day I ever spent, before or since.
     Best Wishes.
         Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 17:35:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Fory Barton)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:35:26 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
Message-ID: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2ACD2.E25DC160
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of =
SPAM.

Fory
Kuykendall's RO
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My Christmas package from my wife =
contained, of=20
all things, a can of SPAM.


 


Fory


Kuykendall's =
RO


------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2ACD2.E25DC160--




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 22:14:13 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:14:13 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
In-Reply-To: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>
Message-ID: 

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

> My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of SPAM=
.
> =20
> Fory
> Kuykendall's RO
>=20

There=B9s an old saying: =B3Halitosis is better than no breath at all.=B2  Same
with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracksmate.  Happy New Year and
Cheers, Bob Hand

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable



Re: [303rd-Talk] Christmas



My Christmas package from my wife containe=
d, of all things, a can of SPAM.

 

Fory

Kuykendall's RO






There’s an old saying: “Halitosis is better than no breath at a=
ll.”  Same with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracks=
mate.  Happy New Year and Cheers, Bob Hand




--B_3123767653_15285070--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 27 06:21:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:21:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #797 - 4 msgs
Message-ID: <119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60@aol.com>

--part1_119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60_boundary
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To Jack Rencher,
       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 
should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was 
the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all 
about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of 
resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I 
don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have 
always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense 
of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.
                                                                             
Jack Amram

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To Jack Rencher,

       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.

                                                                             Jack Amram

--part1_119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 28 21:34:21 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Margaret Keating)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:34:21 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
Message-ID: <207F55D7-1AAC-11D7-921D-0003937677B4@cox.net>

Hi, Everyone!
I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!
Looking at the print of "Any Gum Chum", by Keith Hill, I was just 
wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out to visit 
the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy, etc. 
all the time? It looks as if they came right up to the hardstands ..did 
they? I would love to hear all about how the crews got along with the 
people and children around Molesworth.
Many thanks, and have a very Happy and Healthy New Year!
Margaret Keating
P.S. I'll do more translations next month.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 29 21:42:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:42:46 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum Chum
Message-ID: <001701c2af83$3ce7dc80$38bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Margaret Keating wrote--
 From: Margaret Keating 
 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
 Hi, Everyone!
I was just  wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out
to visit  the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy,
etc all the time?
Margaret Keating
===============================================
Since I was in Air Corp Supply I was never on a hard stand. Yes I
was subjeted to the "Any Gum Chum" roiutine. On my first pass into
Northampton we were surrounded by the "little people" on our exit from
the flicks [Picture show] Later in the war it c hanged to "Got a penny
mister".
One time I said i was sorry but I had no change. One of the boys sais " I
have!"
And pulled a handful of change from his pocket --Maurice J. Paulk



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 30 20:53:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tooley, Dave)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:53:52 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
Message-ID: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>

Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.

Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
Did you ever trade supplies?  

How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
base newspaper? 

Thanks and have great New Year!!

Dave




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 07:48:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:48:41 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Taps - Carson
Message-ID: <005b01c2b0a1$0a3369c0$9c91c8cf@altonmain>

CARSON, John Don, of Wooster, Ohio, died August 17, 2002.  A member of the
North Central Ohio Chapter, he served in the 360 BS, 303 BG, and was a POW
in Luft 3 and 10B.  He is survived by his wife of 54 years, Mary Jane.

I found the above announcement at the AX-POW site. I don't believe it has
been announced here yet, so I thought I would pass it on.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Box 855
Salt Spring Island, BC, Can V8K2W3
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:54:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (matthias leich)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] CRASHSITE FROM BEETY JANE
Message-ID: <001201c2b0dc$93b93f40$166907d5@juliajmlyorzol>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2B0E4.F4893520
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HI ,
MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM RESEARCHER FOR TWO MUSEUM. I LIVING IN =
OHRDRUF.
OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES NORTH FROM OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE =
CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS WAS I FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE =
MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.
BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR FORCE  CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS =
CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. PLEASE CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT =
ADRESS?
MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE CRASHSITE? LET ME KNOW THIS AND I =
SEND PER E-MAIL.
 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR ALL PILOTS AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.
WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM LUFTWAFFE JG4 AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP =
AND=20
FROM THE HELLENCREW. =20
WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE FOUND REMAINS AND BONES FROM =
WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. THIS WAS RESULT =
FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM KOVARSKA =
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN OBERHOF.
OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY.=20

BYE=20

MATTHIAS LEICH          ( SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH)

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2B0E4.F4893520
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









HI ,


MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM =
RESEARCHER FOR TWO=20
MUSEUM. I LIVING IN OHRDRUF.


OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES =
NORTH FROM=20
OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS =
WAS I=20
FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.


BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR =
FORCE =20
CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. =
PLEASE=20
CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT ADRESS?


MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE =
CRASHSITE?=20
LET ME KNOW THIS AND I SEND PER E-MAIL.


 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR =
ALL PILOTS=20
AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.


WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM =
LUFTWAFFE JG4=20
AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP AND 


FROM THE HELLENCREW. =
 


WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE =
FOUND REMAINS=20
AND BONES FROM WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. =
THIS WAS=20
RESULT FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM =
KOVARSKA=20
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN=20
OBERHOF.


OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY. =



 


BYE 


 


MATTHIAS=20
LEICH          ( SORRY FOR =
MY BAD=20
ENGLISH)


------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2B0E4.F4893520--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 13:28:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

> Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
> say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.
> 
> Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
> going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
> Did you ever trade supplies?
> 
> How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
> base newspaper? 
> 
> Thanks and have great New Year!!
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:58:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:58:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

>Seems to me there was little "comparing" except on pass in London where you
might chance to meet an old buddy from training and check up on
classmates...like who bought the farm, who finished 35, stuff like that.
Otherwise, at least in my case, it was the pursuit of happiness or shopping or
buying an Eisenhower jacket, or watching the clock for that last train back to
Kettering. I tried to leave my worries at the interrogation table and not
contemplate how bad the next mission might be.  Cheers and Happy New Year... Bob
Hand  
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 18:34:47 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:34:47 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,
Message-ID: <15b.19b817d6.2b433d47@aol.com>

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when 
talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all 
of y'all.'
Bill D.

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all of y'all.'

Bill D.

--part1_15b.19b817d6.2b433d47_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:12:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:12:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to determine if I
have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com



-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com






From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:15:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tom Beard)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:15:40 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Waist Gunners
Message-ID: <000901c2b111$c5ccf820$460c6ed8@webshark.com>

My dad was with the 360th sq of the 303rd. He was a waist gunner on "Duffy's
Tavern". My question is did a waist gunner always sit on a particular side
of the B-17, or did they move around? I am building a model of "Duffy's
Tavern", and want to know. Thanks...





From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:45:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:45:07 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
References: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <000701c2b115$e7cb86e0$7068db40@billowen>

Patrick,
If you will go to the 303rd web site and click on LINKS you will find some
links to medals and decorations. Maybe you will find what you are looking
for.
Best Wishes,
Bill Owen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Egan" 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


>
> Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to
determine if I
> have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
>
>
> I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems
from his days in
> the 8th
>
> Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
> I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at
http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg
>
>
>
> If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
> http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg
>
> Thanks
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 17:27:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:27:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Favorite Christmas Memory at Molesworth
In-Reply-To: <73820278-0341-11D7-B81B-0003937677B4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

What is your favorite memory from the Christmas Season
at Molesworth?  I have heard some Groups held
Christmas parties for children living near the bases -
did anything like this occur at the 303rd. 

What were your favorite Christmas songs from the era?
Kevin 

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec  4 18:18:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:18:40 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DEDE490.29.6162F7@localhost>

I have added the few A-2 Jackets I have photos of to a new page 
here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
If you would like to have your jacket added, please contact me 
at glm@303rdBGA.com
This page should be a lot of fun.
Thanks!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 00:25:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 19:25:26 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath. I fell in with the
festivities at the base and lost track of time and was left with no barracks or
bed and/or blanket, etc.  By this time the well known pot bellied stoves  had
burned themselves out and it wasn't getting any warmer.  I gently lifted a
blanket from over 4 or 5 sleeping airmen and fashioned a sack on the floor with
my head next  to the stove and fell fast asleep. Sometime in the night a person
wearing heavy shoes was making his way to the john in the dark and not seeing
all that well accidentally kicked me full force in the head.  By the time I got
back from First Aid my  blankets were gone and I spent the rest of Christmas Eve
sleeping in a chair in the day room.

Favorite song was Opus  Number One, by  Tommy Dorsey,  I believe.  The first
8 bars were sure to get your attention.    Speaking of Christmas...by all
means, HAVE A HAPPY !!!!     Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand                        



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  2 05:00:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:00:57 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: <159.184723b1.2b1c4309@aol.com>

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The 
question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer 
crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.

The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to 
try and pick up the pieces. 

For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had 
while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned 
chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.

It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots 
were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific 
airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at 
about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff 
roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately 
went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before 
the plane leveled off and started to climb out.

Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under 
the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified 
course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the 
clear.

There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during 
interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of 
Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface 
locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control 
column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the 
locking pin removed. 

Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were 
for pulling that event off?

Cheers, Ol' Bob

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A couple of months ago I asked a mundane question about subject locks. The question drew a number of responses but before I could follow up, my computer crashed, I lost all the comments, and the topic got lost in the cracks.



The list has been very quiet lately so I thought it might be a good time to try and pick up the pieces. 



For years I've wondered from time to time about an unusual experience I had while substituting for the RO of a strange crew. My wonder was concerned chiefly with my chance of surviving that flight.



It was on a cold, dark, foggy morning. At the mission briefing the pilots were ordered to take off and maintain their runway heading, a specific airspeed, and a specific rate of climb until breaking out in the clear at about 20,000 feet. Although I could not see the ground during the takeoff roll, I felt the wheels leave the runway and I sensed that we immediately went into a steeply banked turn. I further sensed that we did a 360 before the plane leveled off and started to climb out.



Because of the proximity of other bases with 100s of planes taking off under the same circumstances, I was concerned with our straying from the specified course, needless to say, but relieved when we finally climbed out into the clear.



There was not a single comment about the event on the intercom but during interrogation after the mission the engineer explained to me, over a cup of Johnny Walker Red Label, that the pilot took off with the control surface locking pin and its REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT ribbon in place in his control column and flew the airplane with the trim tab controls until he got the locking pin removed. 



Sooooo, you old successful surviving pilots, what do you think the odds were for pulling that event off?



Cheers, Ol' Bob

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 03:46:32 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:32 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Christmas Eve
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20021204172735.6466.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021204174632.00919320@ilhawaii.net>

Bob Hand,

Our crew also spent Christmas Eve, 1944, at Snetterton Heath, and I believe Jack Rencher did too. I had gotten married shortly before going overseas, so Bettie and I spent our first Christmas separated by 3000 or so miles. I remember being very blue while sitting in the Sergeant's Club nursing a beer and listening to Bing Crosby singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas"on the juke box. On Christmas day another crew flew our plane on a mission (which was aborted). Most of our crew took a bus or truck to Molesworth and the pilot (Lt. Goodberlet) and I stayed and flew our plane back when it returned.

Jim Walling

At 07:25 PM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Dec.24 we bombed targets at Merzhausen and were headed back to Molesworth
>when we were diverted because of weather to Snetterton Heath.

>Good Cheer, Good Health and Spirits..Bob Hand
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec  5 05:49:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:49:09 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
Message-ID: 

Ol Bob,
     I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me to 
but I don't want to start that until I answer this one. In my humble opinion 
If the gust lock was installed on take off the trim tab would have very 
little effect on the control surfaces and what little effect they would have 
would be just the opposite from their normal effect.  Your drinking buddy was 
wrong. This just did not happen. No way. You had every right to be concerned 
with your safety. It is barely possible he could have pulled it off if only 
the alienors were locked but he would have to be heavy and fast on the rudder 
and perhaps the throttles and sharp on instruments and (lucky) to do that. I 
join with you in being thankful you are still with us.
     Best Wishes,
           Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec  6 05:20:11 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (ryoung)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:11 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Control Surface Locks--Revisited
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c29ce7$27d16d10$c0604dd1@D4TT9F11>

Jack Rencher -

Your recent absence from the forum has been noted and your valuable input is
missed. It will please all, I am certain, if you will resume sharing your
experience, wit & wisdom on this 303rd talk site.

My 2c worth & best regards -

Rich Young
-----------

> Ol Bob,
>      I wasn't going to answer anymore questions, unless someone asked me
to
>      Best Wishes,
>            Jack
>
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:42:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
Message-ID: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>

Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 00:45:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
Message-ID: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>

Bob Hand,
Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:28:34 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <000b01c29e61$84dbaa40$5668db40@billowen>

Dec.7, 1941

I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our back
yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I had
no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and listened
to everything that was said for the next several days.

My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how he
wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.

Bill Owen




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 02:56:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It sure
scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:21:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>

Vern,

Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim Walling




At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob Hand,
>Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the 
>page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
>http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
>-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>            http://www.303rdBGA.com
>            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 01:13:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
In-Reply-To: <3DF2331E.5240.2591082@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF25677.31419.299C538@localhost>


> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of 
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was 
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing 
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he 
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when 
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums 
is
http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg  

At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated 
Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other 
people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume 
that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the 
Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight 
instructor before joining the 303rd.

But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering 
what they must have been thinking at the time.   



 

 Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net               
                           
 Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones            
 WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html   
 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 16:25:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021207152107.008bb270@ilhawaii.net>
References: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF30FF0.13776.494691@localhost>

> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.

Jim,
That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still 
show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living 
or not.

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 17:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:53:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
Message-ID: <173.12932f5d.2b24e117@aol.com>

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Jim Walling
Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS 
roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several 
years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid
I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny 
days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the 
same day by Charles Mott.
Harry D. Gobrecht

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Jim Walling

Charles Mott and the officers of the Goodberlet Crew were my 358th BS roommates at  Molesworth.  Charles Mott was my good friend.  He died several years ago according to your CoPilot Malcolm Magid

I took the photo of Charles Mott in his A-2 Jacket on one of the few sunny days we had at Molesworth.  The photo of me in my A-2 jacket was taken the same day by Charles Mott.

Harry D. Gobrecht

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 01:52:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:52:59 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec. 7 - Where were you?
Message-ID: <002601c29f25$b5fda320$2bbb9ace@mjpmtman>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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My wife to be ate dinner after churchwith my family. In the afternoon we =
went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the seat - just incase we saw a =
jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the radio. Dec * I went to =
Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March &  enlisted March 17.'42.
Ironically we were on the road to Minnesota to see a 303rd friend on =
Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way there.
Yours In Memories ---Maurice J. Paulk
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My wife to be ate dinner after =
churchwith my=20
family. In the afternoon we went for a ride - [.22 pistol on the =
seat -=20
just incase we saw a jack-rabbit].when we heard the annoucement on the =
radio.=20
Dec * I went to Omah {Nebr.] Welding School.Graduated in March=20
&  enlisted March 17.'42.


Ironically we were on the road to =
Minnesota to see=20
a 303rd friend on Sept 11 and listened to the report all the way=20
there.


Yours In Memories ---Maurice J.=20
Paulk


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 02:03:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Rose & Herb Shanker)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:03:04 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs
References: <20021208170308.B43A153630@pairlist.net>
Message-ID: <000901c29f27$1d8a50a0$0000a398@SHANK>

Re: December 7, 1941. I was at the home of one of my cousins who is 10 weeks
older than I am. We were listening to the NY Giant - Brooklyn Dodger
football game when the announcement was made of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
On VJ Day we were together in Hattiesburg, Miss. I had become a propeller
specialist after returning from England and was stationed At Gulfport,
Miss,which had become a B-29 OTU. My cousin was an oft wounded infantry
medic in the 95th Division of the 3rd Army which had been shipped to Camp
Shelby in Hattiesburg after VE Day. I had searched him out when I heard that
he was coming to Shelby and I was with him on that momentous day. I've often
thought that this would be a good story for Ripley. The odds against this
happening would be far off the charts.  Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com>
To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #781 - 7 msgs


> Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. December 7, 1941 (Gary Moncur)
>    2. A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>    3. Dec.7, 1941 (Bill Owen)
>    4. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bob Hand)
>    5. Re: A-2 Jackets (jimwall@ilhawaii.net)
>    6. Re: December 7, 1941 (Bill Jones)
>    7. Re: A-2 Jackets (Gary Moncur)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:42:54 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 17:45:50 -0700
> Cc: Pilot8thAF@aol.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Bill Owen" 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:28:34 -0600
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dec.7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Dec.7, 1941
>
> I was 13 years old so I remember it well. I had just gone out into our
back
> yard . A boy that lived two houses down from me came out into his yard. We
> did not have fences separating our yards like everybody has now. He yelled
> to me, "Hey, Bill, do you all have your radio on?" I said "No, why?" He
> replied that the Japs had just bombed Pearl Harbor and we were at war. I
had
> no idea what or where Pearl Harbor was. We turned on the radio and
listened
> to everything that was said for the next several days.
>
> My 18 year old brother, Burl, immediately started trying to convince my
> parents that he wanted to join the Army Air Corps. They held him off for a
> few months but he eventually talked them into letting him go. That's how
he
> wound up with the 303rd at Molesworth in early 1943.
>
> Bill Owen
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:56:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> From: Bob Hand 
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Hi Gary...here's one for you re/ 7 Dec.'41...I was technically still in an
> orphanage in Brooklyn when the radio stunned everyone wih the news. It
sure
> scared the bejeezes out of me and when it got dark I packed all my
> belongings in a old suitcase and "skipped the joint" never to return.
> The rest is ancient history.  Cheers, Bob Hand>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:21:07 -1000
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> From: jimwall@ilhawaii.net
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Vern,
>
> Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2 jacket?  He was
our Bombardier and we have been looking for him for years.  We don't know if
he is living or dead.
>
> Jim Walling
>
>
>
>
> At 05:45 PM 12/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bob Hand,
> >Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> >page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> >http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> >
> >-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
> >            http://www.303rdBGA.com
> >            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Bill Jones" 
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 20:13:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] December 7, 1941
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
>
>
> > Today is one of those days that are fixed in the memories of
> > those who were old enough to know what was happening.  This was
> > a few years before my time, but my dad often told of hearing
> > the news on the radio.  I wish he were here now to tell what he
> > was doing at the time.    What were you doing 61 years ago when
> > you heard the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
>
> One of the pictures I have that I found in one of my father's albums
> is
> http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/Tulsa1.jpg
>
> At the time he was in basic flying school.  The picture is dated
> Dec 8 1941, ie the day after Pearl , and is signed by the other
> people in the picture, with things like "Watch the Japs", so I assume
> that everyone in training at the time assumed they'd be sent to the
> Pacific.  Instead, my father spent more than 2 years as a flight
> instructor before joining the 303rd.
>
> But the picture always seemed special due to the date, and wondering
> what they must have been thinking at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Bill Jones  N3JLQ  Sweden Maine   wejones@megalink.net
>
>  Main home page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>  WWII/B-17 page   http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Gary Moncur" 
> Organization: 303rd BGA
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:25:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A-2 Jackets
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> > Where did you get the picture of Charles A. Mott in his A2
> > jacket?  He was our Bombardier and we have been looking for him
> > for years.  We don't know if he is living or dead.
>
> Jim,
> That photo came from Harry Gobrecht's collection.   We still
> show Mott as a missing comrade.  I don't know if he is living
> or not.
>
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>             http://www.303rdBGA.com
>             http://www.B17Thunderbird.com
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk
>
>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:18:29 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: Dec.7, 1941
Message-ID: <001501c29f3a$09077b40$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Leroy Audrey=20
To: 303rd BGA talk molesworth=20
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Dec.7, 1941


It was Sunday and the day after a Saturday night out on the town. Not =
really!  Five of us good buddies from high school, now at college had =
gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show house in =
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with =
lead singer Helen O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the =
downstairs living room of my buddies home paging thru the sports section =
of the Sunday paper, the other guys were upstairs talking and two were =
packing to return to St John's U that night. The radio was on and I =
think it was a network music broadcast when the program was interrrupted =
twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell the others, =
there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year we would =
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military =
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one an =
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day changed the course of our lives.
LeRoy Christenson
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----- Original Message -----=20

From: Leroy=20
Audrey 



Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:34 PM


Subject: Dec.7, 1941





It was Sunday and the day after a =
Saturday night=20
out on the town. Not really!  Five of us good buddies from high =
school, now=20
at college had gathered to attend a big band show at a downtown show =
house in=20
Minnepolis. the bands performed during the breack between the first =
feature and=20
the late night feature film.  The band, Jimmy Dorsey with lead =
singer Helen=20
O'conell. That Sunday afternoon I was in the downstairs living room =
of my=20
buddies home paging thru the sports section of the Sunday paper, the =
other guys=20
were upstairs talking and two were packing to return to St John's U that =
night.=20
The radio was on and I think it was a network music broadcast when the =
program=20
was interrrupted twith the news of the attack. I rushed upstairs to tell =
the=20
others, there was silence, I quess we knew the future, in the next year =
we would=20
be registering for the draft. By early 1943 all five were in military=20
service.  One ended up in a radar installation in Panama,  one =
an=20
ex-officer on a navy transport, one as an instructor in a navy radar =
training=20
school, my buddy, a  P-38 pilot in Ephrata,  WA. were a =
training=20
accident took his life and I in the 303rd, 359th Sqdn as a =
navigator.That day=20
changed the course of our lives.


LeRoy=20
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 04:53:08 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:53:08 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 16:53:18 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Pierce, Gregory S)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:53:18 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, ME 262 replica
Message-ID: 

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As most of you know I head up the 8th AFHS Washington state.
=20
North of Seattle is the town of Everett, for several years a small =
company has been in the process
of making replicas of the first combat jet (the German ME 262). The US =
Navy loaned them their original
captured during the later part of WWII. While restoring the original =
they copied it and are very close
to flying their replica (the first time in 50 some odd years that this =
design will take flight).
=20
I took my boys up last Friday to look at the replica bird. A number of =
the old B-17 guys recalled encounters
with this jet,  most said it stood off and fired rockets into the =
formation.  Some veterans said it would make
one fast pass with the four 30 mm blazing away.  One veteran recalled if =
262's were encounter P-51's would circle
the Germans airbase and wait for the 262 to come in for a approach and =
shoot it down.
=20
Hitler original wanted the 262 as a fighter bomber instead of just a =
fighter/interceptor, many a B-17 pilot was
happy for Hitler's decision/strategic blunder, this delayed them being =
used against out bombers thus many
B-17/B-24 pilots and crews are alive today.
=20
The orginal and replica 262 could reach top speeds of 530-550 mph. Due =
to the large aerodynamic design of the jet intakes the 262 will never =
break the sound barrier.=20
=20
Here are some pic's.

Greg Pierce

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:46:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) SPIDERS A2
Message-ID: <3DF35B51.26664.16FC526@localhost>

This is from Spider Smith.  Graphics don't work on the list, so 
I intercepted the message and am resending it.  Spider's A-2 
Jacket is now online with the others here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html

Spider, I accidently deleted your follow-up message to this 
one.  Please resend it.   Sorry!


------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	"spider" 
To:             	<303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Subject:        	SPIDERS A2
Date sent:      	Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:52:01 -0800
Forwarded to:   	303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Date forwarded: 	Sun,  8 Dec 2002 16:35:48 -0500 (EST)
Forwarded by:   	303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com

HI GARY AND ALL:

 HERE IS A SHOT OF MY A2 JACKET WHICH I PAINTED THE LOGOS ON
 WHEN I RETURNED FROM OVERSEAS IN MAY OF 1945. I USED MODEL
 AIRPLANE DOPE AND IT HELD UP PRETTY GOOD. THE JACKET DOEENT 
FIT
 ANY MORE BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY CALL ME SPIDER I'M NOT THET
 SKINNEY ANY MORE. AS FOR PEARL HARBOR DAY , I WAS JUST GETTING
 READY TO GO DOWN TO THE SODA FOUNTAIN WHERE WE WENT TO CHASE
 GIRLS. THE NEWS WAS A REAL SHOCK AND I WANTED TO QUIT HIGH
 SCHOOL"SENIOR" BUT MY DAD WOULDN'T LET ME . JOINED UP IN
 DECEMBER OF 1942 AND WAS CALLED UP IN MARCH OF 43. WENT TO
 ATLANTIC CITY FER BASIC TRAINING AND THEN TO PEN STATE FOR
 COLLEGE TRAINING.GRADUATED FROM PILOT TRAINING IN FEB 44 AND
 WAS IN MOLESWORTH IN MAY44.

      DICK "SPIDER" SMITH

------- End of forwarded message --------- Gary --  Webmaster, 
303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 21:58:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:58:27 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, December 7
Message-ID: <18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83@aol.com>

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary
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Hi to all,
I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, 
Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was 
stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and 
announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably 
were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand 
why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month 
our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended 
up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.
Bill D.  

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Hi to all,

I was in the Infantry, a Sgt., and was attending a movie in Fort Worth, Texas. The theater was the Worth and the movie was "Sgt. York." The movie was stopped and I guess it was the theater manager came onto the stage and announced that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and that we probably were at war with Japan. The audience applauded, but I could not understand why they were so pleased with the announcement. Before the end of the month our Regiment was on the way to the West coast, destination unknown. We ended up in Washington State. I entered the Army Air Corps later that year, 1942.

Bill D.  

--part1_18b.12ac67c9.2b251a83_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec  8 22:21:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:21:17 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd@aol.com>

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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home 
on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message 
coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base 
imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that 
the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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In answer to the question, where were you on Pearl Harbor Day? I was at home on leave from my army base at westover field, Mass. I remember the message coming over the radio for all military personnel to return to base imediatley. Lots of people were stunned at the hearing of that message that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor. 

--part1_7d.31eb5148.2b251fdd_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:00:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Drewry, Duke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:00:42 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dad was at Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s
coming in so he went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of
the pictures he took to be posted).  I remember him saying all they
could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to fire at the
Japanese planes.
Were any of you other 303rd members there that day?
=20
Duke Drewry

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Da=
d was at
Hickam Field; at first he thought it was the flight of B17s coming in so =
he
went outside with his camera. (Gary has a copy of one of the pictures he =
took
to be posted).  I remember =
him
saying all they could do was break into the armory and use the rifles to =
fire
at the Japanese planes.



We=
re any
of you other 303rd members there that =
day?



 



Du=
ke Drewry









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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec  9 19:36:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:36:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] ME 262 replica
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>

Greg:  Thanks for posting the information on the 262! 
What a project that must have been.  Any idea what
engines are being used on the reproduction, and is it
a full-size reproduction?

When the Allies over ran the Low Countries and
Germany, hundreds of 262 airframes were discovered. 
Apparently the Germans could not acquire enough
titanium to make the impeller blades for the Juno
engines.  I've also read that at the end of the war
the 262s were using the Autobohn as airstrips since
our boys had decimated most of the German airfields.

Greg, have you got an address or phone for the guys
building the 262.  I may be down there in the next
couple of weeks and I'd like to pay them a visit.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 00:04:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: <14c.1897d092.2b26899e@aol.com>

Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 
was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 
Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer.
Terry Lucas


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 02:02:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:27 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed
Message-ID: 




Merlin is memorialized by a large framed display hanging up at RAF Molesworth. It contains a copy of a painting he did, a letter from Merlin, long text describing his service, and several pictures donated by Brian O'Neill. He freely offered me help when I was at Molesworth.
He was a gentleman as well as a hero. 


Brian S. McGuire








>From: Thor542086@aol.com 

>Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com 

>To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com 

>Subject: [303rd-Talk] Member has Passed 

>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:04:46 EST 

> 

>Gentlemen, another member of the 303rd passed away November 11. Merlin Miller 

>was a tail gunner on the Visious Virgin on Hullar's plane in the 427th BS. 

>Merlin helped write Three Engines, Half a Wing and a Prayer. 

>Terry Lucas 


MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service:  2 months FREE*


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 10 17:36:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Billy Southworth
In-Reply-To: <20021209193650.89327.qmail@web12002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021210173638.23760.qmail@web12004.mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have Mr. Southworth's address?

Thanks!
Kevin

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 02:53:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary:  I was with a client today that would like to
join our chat ring.  His name is Hans Vogel and his
e-mail is:

hvogel@triverus.com

I will let him give his background.  Perhaps you could
send him a brief message on how to sign up.  It's been
so long since I signed up that I have forgotten how.

Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
website.  It's one of the best!

Thanks Gary!

Kevin



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 03:38:19 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <20021212025327.84827.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3DF3BF44.16703.2F640FB@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 12 18:32:48 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Hans Vogel)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:32:48 -0900
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
In-Reply-To: <3DF7A23B.9661.2F324EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <5F46B2E7A18B284583CD156045A9A1AAF73D@server01.triverusllc.com>

Thank you,

I will be sit back and take in what I can for a while.  Although WWII is
quite before my time I have a reverence for what was done and I consider
it a honor to discuss the war with veterans and those knowledgeable. 

Hans Vogel
Triverus LLC
907.830.9098
www.triverus.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New Member

Hans,
Welcome!  I signed you up, so you don't have to do anything 
except enjoy some good, informative talk about WWII and the 
303rd.  Make yourself at home and get to know some great 
people.  There are some very knowledgeable and intelligent 
people here. 
 
 
> Hans:  Please feel free to ask any questions of the
> veterans on this forum, but please keep it related to
> WWII and the airwar.  Gary monitors all of our posts
> to keep us from going astray of the purpose of this
> forum.  You should also check out the 303rd BG
> website.  It's one of the best!

-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 16 22:29:57 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 17 April 1945 Dresden Raid
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021216222957.36814.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone help the German fellow who asks the
following question?  Kevin


(I) SKUNK FACE III -91st BG- crashed after Me262
attack near Dresden
(II) TOWERING TITAN -305th BG, 365th Sq, 43-38085-
crashed after mid air collision near Dresden
(III) EARTH QUAKE McGOON -303rd BG, 427th Sq,
43-37597- crashed because of Flak near Brux
(IV) SACK TIME -303rd BG, 360th Sq, 42-102544- crashed
because of Flak near Chemnitz
(V) OLD MISS AGNES -486th BG- crashed near Eger

All planes participated the bomb raid to Dresden
marshalling yards on 17th April 1945 and got lost. -
I´m live near Dresden and I´m a local historian. All
wreckages were found and now I try to collect
informations about the planes. Who can help? Just
email me: wellington@gmx.ch 



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 06:18:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:18:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>

May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land 
your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your 
Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when 
you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus 
May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very 
Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
     Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 07:06:00 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:06:00 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dresden April 17, 1945
Message-ID: <004401c2a663$ec5b8870$ba91c8cf@altonmain>

Hello, All.
    I wonder if I could ask for a little bit of assistance in searching out
as much info as we can find on a couple of 303rd planes that crashed on one
of the last missions of the war. They were two of six heavy bombers that
were downed that day. The raid took place on April 17, 1945.
    The two planes involved were

SACK TIME 42-102544, 303rd BG, 360th Sq, Crew of Blaine Thomas

EARTH QUAKE McGOON 43-37597, 303rd BG, 427th Sq, Crew of Thomas Kahler

    I have made contact with a gentleman in Germany, who lives in a town one
mile south of Dresden. One of six other planes, Skunkface
44-6658 of the 91st BG, was recovered near his home, in 2000. He has sent me
a picture of 2 of the engines coming out of the ground and being readied for
transport to a museum.
    This may be a good chance for us all to get some info from the German
side, while ensuring the memory of the men in those 303rd planes stays
alive. The info we get for Matthias will be used in the display of remains
of some of the aircraft.
    Anyone care to help out?
    By the way, if anyone wants to see the photo of Skunkface being
recovered, email me and I will pass it on. It is a 91st BG plane, so I won't
ask Gary to post it on the site.
Thanks,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 14:33:05 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:33:05 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <29.33d8ddcb.2b316d35@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

> May you always land your Cessna 180 with the gear down. May you never land
> your PBY5A with the hull drain plugs in the hanger. May you never fly your
> Barron with 2 engines out. May you never try to eat a big bowl of soup when
> you are about to fall asleep May you and/or your computer never get a virus
> May you come to the 303rd reunion in Portland in 03.  May you have A very
> Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New year. May I bid you GOOD NIGHT?
>    Jack Rencher
> 
Uncle Jack, your Holiday Sentiments are gratefully received and acknowledged
as are your informative updates...I agree that they should be in book form.
As far as the Portland '03 goes, I'd better get my Parkinson's shuffle in
gear and hit the trail via shoeleather...any other method is a killer
expense. Hate to miss yet another reunion, but they've gotta be a tad closer
to home to be affordable. Staying healthy the rest of the year is essential
and can take a sizeable chunk out of any income, such being  the facts of
life in "The Golden Age".  Ah wwll, a Most Merry Christmas to you and yours,
with congratulations and thanks thrown in!  Cheers, Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 16:02:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:54 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings
Message-ID: <1a6.de9e22a.2b31f62e@aol.com>


ditto to all may this season be meaningfull to all. spec


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 19:06:59 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:06:59 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>

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Hi Jack,
Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a 
Very Happy New Year.
You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing
your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.
Cheers,
Bill D.   

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Hi Jack,

Thank you for the kind words and may you have a Very Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You left out one 'May you,' may you never try landing

your SA-16 on water with your landing gear down.

Cheers,

Bill D.   

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:25:17 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:25:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <15c.189f63af.2b322153@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>

Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is.  I'm
guessing it is used to get a star fix.

Thanks, guys!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 18 22:54:51 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:54:51 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,Greetings
Message-ID: <153.191d3b70.2b3256bb@aol.com>

Bill D.
     Thanks for your help about landing the SA-16 in the water with the dear 
down. I shall be alert. I do have 2 requests Bill. #1 If you see me at the 
airport better you say Lo Jack. Not Hi Jack.  #2 I am new with e-mail and 
computers. What does nbsp mean? Some of the stuff I get I see repeats it 2 or 
3 times.
I hope it is not profanity. I have granddaughters.  MERRY CHRISTMAS again. I 
hope this is not a dumb question.
   HaLo  Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 01:49:36 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219014936.73647.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
>  Kevin, I don't know what an "oxtant" is but as you
probably know, a "sextant" is used for either star  or
sun shots to determine position in latitude and
lomgitude..........Bill Runnels


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 02:11:04 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (bill runnels)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
In-Reply-To: <20021218222517.62434.qmail@web12006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021219021104.79765.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kevin Pearson  wrote:
> Last night I was doing some reading and read that a
> navigator was using an oxtant - I may have the
> spelling wrong.  Can anyone tell me what this is. 
> I'm
> guessing it is used to get a star fix.
> 
 Kevin, It probably was an "octant" which is also used
to measure angels up to 90 degrees........Bill Runnels

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 05:24:28 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:24:28 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
Message-ID: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>

Kevin,
     My best guess is that your Oxtant was a Sextant, an instrument used to 
measure the angle of a specific Heavenly body (star) at a specific time in 
celestial navigation This angle would then form a circle around the earth 
where that angle would be at that time hence you would know you were some 
where on that circle. Then the navigator would pick another star and get 
another circle. Now he has two places on the earth where the 2 circles cross 
each other so he, or she, knows he is at one of those two crosses.  Since 
those 2 crosses are on opposite sides of the earth he probably can come up 
with the right one. If not he can shoot a 3rd star and then he will have a 
small (hopefully) triangle and he should be in it.        
     Celestial navigation works good on ocean going ships as they move 
slowly. It has it's limitations It doesn't work good in daylight as one only 
has the sun and the moon maybe and they move so fast. Then airplanes move so 
fast they travel quite a bit while the poor Navigator is figuring and looking 
in all his books and charts and time peace's. The sextant must be held very 
level and very steady and most air planes and some pilots wiggle a lot. On 
B17s there is a little plastic dome a foot or 2 in front of the Pilots 
windshield for the navigator to use to look out through his sextant when he 
shoots a fix. Now you know the rest of the story
     Best Wishes,
         Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 11:44:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:44:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant
References: <105.2289f666.2b32b20c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>

My cow usually uses the oxtant to imagine the size of her friends. 
But, as Jack told us, the instrument will have been a sextant. 
An oxtant is nothing else than the half of a quadrant, which means a quarter
of a circle or 90 degrees. An oxtant is an area of 45 degrees. It is written
in a silly way, I and my cow are not guilty for this. 
Bernd

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:11:45 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:11:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Oxtant/Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3919.1040298265@www1.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20021219171145.62986.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about the
Oxtant.  I've read a lot of books on the Eighth, but
never heard that term before - must have been a typo.

Jack R. - thanks for your response.  Please beleive
all of us when we say we never tire of your responses.
 You've taught me quite a bit!  Thanks!
Kevin

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 19 17:23:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:23:31 -0000
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Chrismas & A Happy New Year.
Message-ID: <002101c2a783$5ad72a00$0100007f@n0i6c5>

May we wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas, 
and 
Love, Health and Happiness for the New Year.

From Across the Big Pond.
Moofy & Pete 


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 01:42:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (CHARLES BURTON)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:42:41 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
Message-ID: 

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2A796.CB121C90
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I come from a family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been =
the 8th Air Force and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to Engl=
and early next year and would like to know if any of the old airfields ar=
e still there in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of t=
he flavor of the times. Anybody know of any such locations?
               Thanks,
                    Chuck Burton

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I come from a =
family of military aviators. My greatest interest has been the 8th Air Fo=
rce and the air war in Britain. I will be traveling to England early next=
 year and would like to know if any of the old airfields are still there =
in original wartime condition so I might pick up a bit of the flavor of t=
he times. Anybody know of any such locations?
 
  &nbs=
p;            Than=
ks,
 
         &nbs=
p;          Chuck Burton
=



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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 04:55:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Leroy Audrey)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:55:43 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] octant
Message-ID: <001901c2a7e4$0f210700$18ac7618@ce1.client2.attbi.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I haven't dug down to get out my old navigation books, but  right now I =
do not recall the seeing the term, but then senior moments  might have =
clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and easiest thing --I got the =
American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and looked for =
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"
1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 eegree arc, b. an area enclosed by =
two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected arc.2. an instrument =
based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 degree =
angle, used as an aid to navigation.

Now the instrument that was really intreguing was one shown on Public =
TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships over open water and =
they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a sundail =
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the =
shadow with the "pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was =
heading. very neat since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and =
around Greenland there could huge degrees of deviation from magnetic =
north, Perhaps that is why some navigators got lost when flying over or =
close by to Greenland in the middle of the night.
That's all for tonight
LeRoy Christenson
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I haven't dug down to get out my old =
navigation=20
books, but  right now I do not recall the seeing the term, but then =
senior=20
moments  might have clouded the recall cycle. I did the next and =
easiest=20
thing --I got the American Heritage Dictionary from the bookcase and =
looked for=20
"oxtant"--no listing, however, there is an "octant"


1. one-eighth of a circle, a. a 45 =
eegree arc, b.=20
an area enclosed by two radiiat a 45 degree angleand the intersected =
arc.2. an=20
instrument based on the principle of the sextantbut employinf only a 45 =
degree=20
angle, used as an aid to navigation.


 


Now the instrument that was really =
intreguing was=20
one shown on Public TV-- re the Vikings and their travels by longships =
over open=20
water and they arrived at their destination. It had the appearance of a =
sundail=20
with a peg in the middle which cast a shadow from the sun on a dial, on =
the dial=20
was scribed a tracing of the sun's path, by lining up the shadow with =
the=20
"pathline" would give the compass direction the ship was heading. very =
neat=20
since it was not subject o magnetic deviation--and around Greenland =
there could=20
huge degrees of deviation from magnetic north, Perhaps that is why some=20
navigators got lost when flying over or close by to Greenland in the =
middle of=20
the night.


That's all for tonight


LeRoy =
Christenson


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 05:21:50 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:21:50 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons
Message-ID: 

Bob Hand,      
       Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the 
Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are the 
leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon for 
treatment of this one.
Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity of 
FL.  
      Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it 
interesting.
     Best Wishes,
         Uncle Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 06:34:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:34:22 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
References: 
Message-ID: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>

Bob and Jack,
You are both major contributors to the knowledge we glean from those times
past.
I have a copy of your book, Bob, as you may recall. At the time I got it, I
was living in a trailer, doing some property maintenance. It was on a
waterfront property, and the evenings were pretty primitive. No power, and
reading by 12 volt in the trailer. Your book sat on my kitchen table for a
couple of weeks, and I studied and read it many times.
You never need to feel you will ever be forgotten. I have put out one book
myself on CD. It is called "The Diary of the First Combat Wing". I would be
proud to carry some of your stories as an addendum to future issues. Mine is
not a book, per se, but is meant to be printable to the recipient. It is
very printable, and also contains over 30 photos and maps. I did it on CD,
in order to keep it cheap and easy to produce, and to spread it as far and
wide as I could, for as cheaply as possible.
If any of you reading this are looking for a quality "coffee table" sized
book, done up in fine quality, look to Bob. He really did a classy job on
his. Mine is a CD-ROM book, that is printable, whereas Bob's is right there
in published form.
I would recommend it to anyone.
Gordy.

Bob, you hand in there, old friend. You're one of the best, and we want a
little more of your time on earth before the Good Lord blesses you to be
with the others like my father, Don Alton, who have already led the way on
that final flight. We are so blessed with you, and all the rest of you that
are able and brave enough to get on a computer and tell us what you can. I
salute you all.
All my love and respect to all of you ....
Have a great holiday season, and all the best to each and every one of you
in the coming New Year.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Parkinsons


> Bob Hand,
>        Sorry Bob to hear about the Parkinsons. This old age is called the
> Golden Years. They, who ever "They " are have the wrong metal. They are
the
> leaden years. Hang in there. Some interesting progress is on the horizon
for
> treatment of this one.
> Also our 04 reunion looks now like Savannah I think it is in the vicinity
of
> FL.
>       Thanks for your participation in Gary's 303rd Web. You make it
> interesting.
>      Best Wishes,
>          Uncle Jack
>




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 16:10:43 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:43 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Stay with us, we love you......
In-Reply-To: <001d01c2a7f1$d5bac7e0$bf91c8cf@altonmain>
Message-ID: 

> Hi Jack and Gordon...many many thanks for your most welcome E-note.  At a
Parkinson's support group this past Tuesday (actually a Holiday Dinner) a young
lady asked to join my wife and myself along with her husband.  Somehow...who
knows how...the words "Air Force" snuck into the conversation and she
brightened, saying "My Dad flew B-24s in the  Pacific." and thereby went the
theme of the evening's discussion.  If this has happened once it's happened a
dozen times...the optometrist, dentist, dry cleaner, Sam's Club (twice!) and a
gang of others either had the WWII heavy bomber experience or were children of
same.  What a blast it is digging up old experiences and sharing "near misses"
like the B=24 pilot in the SoPac getting out ALIVE!!
Looking forward to the '04 in Savannah..taking my Miraplex as prescribed. As
noted at the dinner, I'm not near as bad as some folks and damn thankful.  A
most Happy Holiday to All!  Cheers from Tennessee.....Bob Hand.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:23:01 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:23:01 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #791 - 6 msgs
Message-ID: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis 
Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. 
They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. 
GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the 
Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR 
Russel and Donna Wagner. 
We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.

I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry 
Christmas and a blessed New Year.
Bob

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I had the pleasure of receiving the Christmas letter from the Joint Analysis Center and the base squadron, RAF Molesworth and RAF Alconbury each year. They havent forgotten and show there inspiration for the 303rd bomb group. GOD bless these people.  I also was blessed by the enclose letter from the Deputy Division Chief of a Terrorism/Counterintelligence Division, Navy. LCDR Russel and Donna Wagner. 

We can't lose with these GOD fearing men.



I wish all the men over there and the whole 303 Bomb Group A very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

Bob

--part1_11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 18:51:37 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Battle of Britain Airfields
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20021220185137.88623.qmail@web12008.mail.yahoo.com>

Gary or Gordy:  If you don't want to post this since I
don't memtion the 303rd, I sent Charles a direct
reply.
KMP


Charles:  I have been to all most of the heavy bombers
bases used by the 8th AF during the war, and many of
the FG bases.  I am attaching two agendas that have
phone numbers, contacts, and what’s left at each base.
 If you only have a limited amount of time, here is
what I would recommend and it would take two days if
most of your stay is in London.  Take the train from
King’s Cross to Cambridge.  Peter Roberts is the
president of the East Anglian Aviation Society, the
group that has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn, home
of the 91st and Memphis Belle fame, into a museum. 
Peter would meet you at the train station and take you
there and give you the guided tour.  Peter is a great
guys - just call him when you get to the UK.  He will
be on holiday from 22 to 29 December.  The Museum is
only open on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so you will
need Peter’s help.  It is most impressive.  Most of
the buildings are still intact.  The bases was being
used by the Depot for the Queen’s Regiment, a British
Army Training Unit, not sure what group is in there
now.  See my story Return to Bassingbourn.  

After visiting Bassingbourn and Steeple Morden, 355th
FG near Litlington, just next door to Bassingbourn,
stop by Madingley Cemetary.  You won’t be sorry. 
Madingley is an American Military Cemetery where many
of our boys are buried.  The Wall of the Missing where
5,811 names are etched, is most impressive.  The
Chapel and the mosaic on the ceiling – if you walk out
of there without a tear in your eye I would be very
surprised.  

There are two hotels I like in Cambridge – The
Gonville Place – A Best Western Hotel, and the Arundel
House.  Phone numbers for each are on the agendas.  

After checking into the hotel, take Peter to dinner at
The Eagle Pub in Cambridge.  During the war, the
troops wrote things on the ceiling with lighters and
candles – squadron #s, plane names, group numbers,
etc.  There’s other wartime memorabilia there too.

Second day go seven km south of Cambridge by taxi or
bus to Duxford.  Spits and Hurricanes flew from
Duxford during the Battle of Britain, and the 78th FG
was based there later in the war.  It is now the home
of the Imperial War Museum’s Aviation Branch.  It is
just like going back to 1940.  Most of the buildings
are there.  The hangars house and extensive collection
of warbirds, and the IWM prides itself on having a
warbird flying during most open hours of operation. 
The American Air Museum is also located at Duxford on
the base and you would enjoy that.  Sally B, a B-17,
is also based there.  If you only have one day this is
what I would recommend.  The price is kinda steep to
get in at about 12 Pounds Sterling, but you won’t
regret it.

If you have more time, go to Thorpes Abbotts, Diss,
Norfolk, about two hours by car from Cambridge, to the
100th BG Museum.  This is the best 8th AF Bomb Group
museum in England.  Ron and Carol Bately are awesome
hosts and you will need to make special arrangements
with them to get in the museum as it is only open on
Wednesdays.  Eat at the Three Horses Pub, a few miles
west of there.  Great steak and kidney pie and
lemonade shanties.  You can see this in the morning,
then drive over to Framlingham (Parhnam), home of the
390th BG(H) in the afternoon.  The Tower has been
restored and there is a great museum there dedicated
to the Square Js.

I have not seen it since it was under construction
when I was there, but the Tower at Rougham (Bury St.
Edmunds) has been restored to a museum and there are
many buildings left at the technical site, which has
now been turned into an industrial estate.  Rougham is
on your way to Thorpe Abbotts.  If you go there, be
sure to go north of the tower across the field to the
Flying Fortress Freehouse (bar and grill).  A lot of
neat stuff there.

If you plan to drive, be sure to take plenty of time. 
The roads are narrow and there’s a ton of traffic. 
Buy Ordinance Survey Maps 1:50,000.  You can buy these
in any book store in London or Cambridge and they are
most detailed.

Please feel free to call me today at 800.462.7275 if
you want to speak direct.  You may call me at home
tomorrow at 907.333.0778. I will be traveling on 22
Dec. to Peoria, Illinois, and I can be reached there
at 309.691.4548 on Monday though the following Sunday.

Good luck and if I can help in any way, please let me
know.

Kevin M. Pearson
Vice President, Business Development
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
900 W. 5th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska  99501
Phone:  907.258.3700
Fax:  907.258.6646
e-mail: kpearson@aedcweb.com
www.aedcweb.com



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 19:07:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <11b.1b9cca74.2b34ba05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>

Don't ever quit telling your stories to us younger
people.  We live in awe at what you did when you were
so young.  We can't comprehend what it must have been
like getting up every morning and wondering if it was
your last.  We can't comprehend.

Bob Hand:  The other night I was checking out at the
Wal-Mart, and this older fellow was sitting on a bench
in front of my checkout lane.  He had a hat on that
said, "USS Yorktown."  I kept staring at him and his
hat while I was checking out and when I walked past
him, I asked, "Were you on the Yorktown?"  In a very
proud way he said yes.  I said, "Coral Sea?"  And he
said, "Yes."  I then said, "And Midway?"  His eyes
brightened, and you could tell he was impressed I knew
the Yorktown was at both Coral Sea and Midway.  Again
he answered yes.  I sat down next to him and spent the
next hour talking to him about those two naval
battles.  He had been an armorer in the Hangar Deck. 
At Midway he recalled the torpeados striking the ship
and how he dropped 90 feet to the water and thought he
broke both legs.

Keep talking.  We need to know what you went through. 
We need to know so we don't ever repeat the mistakes
of the past.
Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 20 21:10:27 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:10:27 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 04:04:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:04:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] To Bob, Jack, Gordy and All
In-Reply-To: <20021220190746.58825.qmail@web12001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>Hi All...my brother Jeff was in communications aboard the USS Franklyn when it
was Kamikazed 65 miles off the coast of Japan.  He jumped into the water and was
rescued by the Destroyer Phoenix and was eventually returned to the carrier and
sailed some 12,000 miles back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I happened to be on
leave  at the time and had the rare, bone-chilling experience of seeing the
devastation, the decks puddled with molten aluminum.  The Franklyn was part of
many of the Pacific Major Battles.  The carrier was eventually restored but
never recommissioned and was eventually sold for scrap to guess who.  My brother
died in 1985 and his ashes were scattered off the Submarine Augusta somewhere in
the Atlantic. I wear a baseball cap with an 8th AF patch on it and it attracts a
surprising number of interested parties.  Cheers, Bob Hand 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 07:25:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Marvin)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:25:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Maintenance squadron....
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, from early 1955 through late =
1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance shop....TDY to Guam =
twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft maintenance with many =
different airline companies until My retirement in 1996....I only =
attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E. Owings

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









I was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB, =
from early=20
1955 through late 1958....I worked in the 303rd electrical maintenance=20
shop....TDY to Guam twice....enjoyed the work and stayed with aircraft=20
maintenance with many different airline companies until My retirement in =

1996....I only attained the rank of A1C....Marvin E.=20
Owings


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C2A87F.098ACEC0--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 21:48:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:48:31 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>

Hi All,
I'm currently reading a book called "Courage in a Season of 
War" by Paul H. Kelly and Lin H. Johnson.  It consists of WWII 
wartime experiences of some LDS (Mormon) servicemen. 

One gentleman's comments brought a question to mind that I have 
never thought about.   Spencer S. Hunn, a B-24 pilot, wrote, 
"Trouble started on take-off.  A B-24 exploded just after its 
landing gear retracted into the nacelles.  We later found out 
that one of our own soldiers (a traitor) had put hand grenades 
in the wheel wells."  (page 201)

Do any of you know of any incidents of sabotage at Molesworth?  
I cannot imagine this happening, but maybe I'm being naive.

Thanks for your response,
 -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 21 23:07:54 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:07:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
References: <3E047F3F.12649.3EBC42@localhost>
Message-ID: <28444.1040512074@www47.gmx.net>

I would think, there was not much sabotage? In Germany it was often. They
"hang" people everywhere to stop it. That was reported by my father from the
ministery in that time. Everyone knew, where was to find the true information,
as it was told in the leaflets, too. 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 02:22:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 21:22:40 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Sabotage at Molesworth?
Message-ID: <86.23c09354.2b367bf0@aol.com>

Gary,
     I know of NO acts of sabotage at Molesworth. We did have informers 
there. I was listening to I think Lord Haw Haw. Once. He said "The clock in 
the officers club at Molesworth is 12 (as I remember) minutes slow. I got on 
my bike and rode over. He was right on the money.  I did at one time very 
seriously consider shooting a First pilot and dumping him out. I didn't as it 
was very cold that mission and I hated to open the window. I also only had 
one spare clip that day and I didn't want to waste a bullet. Merry Christmas 
Gary.
      Jack


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 22:52:22 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:52:22 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Mountain Attraction...hoo boy!!
In-Reply-To: <3DF233CE.25532.25BBFBC@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Bob Hand,
> Thanks for the photos of your A-2 Jacket.  I have it on the
> page now.  Do any of you have A-2 jackets we can show?
> http://www.303rdbga.com/a2.html
> 
> -- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
>           http://www.303rdBGA.com
>           http://www.B17Thunderbird.com

Hi Gary:  Yesterday I visited the Tennessee Museum of Aviation in
Sevierville and got a big surprise...one heck of an up-to-date facility, all
indoors, with hundreds of mememntos of the wars and some handsome samples of
WWII aircraft....two gorgeous P-47s, s TBF Avenger, AT-6 Yellow Texan, F-86,
F-100, couple of Russian types, all flyable, I understand, and parked on an
immaculate white floor.  Sorry, no B-17 on display, but they are visited
frequently by Alumin Overcast and others.  Fee= $12.50 w/ex-GI escort and is
worth the money.  Needless to say, this area is incredible in terms of
things to do and places to eat, amongst which is DollyWood, lil'ol' Dolly
Parton's place.  Been there and gonna go again.  Might make a great place
for a future reunion.  The museum has an address as follows:

Www/tnairmuseum.com.  Cheers, Bob Hand
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 22 23:30:10 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:30:10 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>

Maurice Paulk emailed me personally with the below message:

 --------- While stationed at Benghazi Libya for 2 months in 
'45 I talked with some fellows from the 15th Air Force Italy. 
They told the story of 10-12 B-24s blowing up on take off. They 
finally caught a M/Sgt [I think] placing explosives in the 
wheel well so as to detonate when the wheels were retracted, 
Rumor had it he was getting $1000 a plane.----------The whole 
field volunteered for the firing squad. For what it is worth.---
----------Maurice J. Paulk  

Maurice,
I believe the incident I mentioned was the same group and was 
what your friends recalled to you.  Lt Hunn was flying out of 
Libya with the 44th BG.  The particular incident he remembered 
was on 1 August 1943, as they were taking off to bomb the oil 
refineries at Ploesti, Romania.  

Thanks for the comments!
-- Gary --  Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group (H) Association
            http://www.303rdBGA.com
            http://www.B17Thunderbird.com



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 01:56:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:56:41 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <000501c2aa26$89a27600$6501a8c0@desktop1>

My father told a tale of a rumor of poisoned de-icer ( or coolant , I forget
which) that at one point had made the rounds amongst the ground crews.
Having no belief nor tolerance for the rumor, he held up a gallon can over
his head and dumped it over himself-  see, ( other than the usual toxic
stuff in here...) theres nothing to be afarid of !

Bill



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 02:32:38 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:32:38 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
Message-ID: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>

Bill,
     The coolant was probably ethylene Glycol. It is not poisonous unless he 
drank or ingested it.  He wouldn't want to leave it on very long before he 
took a shower. The deicer might have been Methyl Alcohol. That wouldn't hurt 
him if he didn't get it in his eyes and he didn't absorb to much through his 
skin. It is poison to drink or ingest or at least it should be. It could make 
you blind before it killed you.
     Best Wishes,
      If I was an alcoholic I would be an old alcoholic


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 04:10:25 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Conklin)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Sabotage
References: <121.1bf1ec5f.2b37cfc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c2aa39$38620180$6501a8c0@desktop1>

  Another instance I recall being told about was some dud german cannon
shells that were found after missions- mechanics had to crawl into wing
structures to inspect battle damage and sometimes unexploded shells were
found- some of them allegedly were sabotaged by the people assembling the
German ammo, and had no explosives inside. Resistance forces at work ?



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 23 14:07:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:07:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Greetings!
In-Reply-To: <3E05E892.3491.21664C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> As a kid in Brooklyn I shined shoes twice a day at the 77th Precinct.  Don't
laugh...one day I came out of the bank with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS on deposit!  One
morning while slapping on the black polish one of the cops came in with a real
ruffian of a kid who'd been hauled in for breaking and entering a number of
times.  Every cop that passed him in his seat gave him a set of knuckles on the
back of his head. (This was the old days!!) At one point it was decided to take
this habitual offender down town for some serious punishment.  As he was led
away in cuffs, he paused in the doorway, turned to the station house crew and
said in Brooklynese, "I WANNA WISH YEZ AWL A VERY  MERRY CHRIS'MAS!!

Gentlemen and Ladies of the 303rd, I wish the same to you.  May your New
Year be bright with promise and good health. Cheers!   Bob and Nyela Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 06:02:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:02:07 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] 2003
Message-ID: <006301c2ab11$fe026a00$e291c8cf@altonmain>

Hope the holiday season finds all of you healthy, happy, and of good cheer.
Sometimes when all is not in place, this time of year can at least bring a
smile to your face, with the love and joy and sharing from others.
I wish you all the best in the coming new year, and give my thanks to all of
you vets for the fight you took to the enemy so many years ago.
We will not forget you.
Yours,
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Salt Spring Island, BC
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 11:52:31 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (hans reusink)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:52:31 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <001b01c2ab42$f1789d00$044179c3@default>

DEAR MEMBERS OF THE 303RD BOMBING GROUP.
I WANT TO WISH YOU ALL WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTION A MERRY CHRISTMASTIME
AND FOR THE YEAR 2003 ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD AND MOST IMPORTANT A VERY
GOOD HEALTH.
HANS FROM HOLLAND.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 24 17:12:14 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:12:14 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] christmasgreetings
Message-ID: <132.1872d797.2b39ef6e@aol.com>


thanks hans. cheery good days ahead for your's. spec campen


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 07:17:42 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Hoyt)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:17:42 -0700
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
Message-ID: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>

What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
a special meal or maybe a package from home?
By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!

Bill Hoyt



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:34:03 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:34:03 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <001101c2ac4c$989838c0$50bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Bill Hoyt wrote---> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth?
Anything stick out in
> your mind ....................?

Come to think of it --I remember only one Christmas - that of '42. I was in
Northampton on pass.  Stayed at the Red Cross. I was with Wayne Baker & Joe
Clay. Wayne had a date with an ATS girl and she had a friend who I finally
wound up with. Don't remember eating unless it was at the Red Cross but we
did go to a show.

Don't seem to recall any decoarations  [except betty Grable by several
bunks - including mine]. I seem to remember the Christmas days as just
another day.. I think I have a greeting card from the CO for one Christmas

Maurice



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 19:52:23 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:52:23 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merry Christmas!!
In-Reply-To: <005101c2abe8$1d000c60$7e970243@default>
Message-ID: 

> 
> What was Christmas like in your hut at Molesworth? Anything stick out in
> your mind like maybe some kind of decoration ya had hangin over the stove or
> a special meal or maybe a package from home?
> By the way,  Merry Christmas to everyone!
> 
> Bill Hoyt
> 
> 
Yo, Bill, and the Merry and Happy be upon you and yours.  Our barracks
earned the name "Hell's Kitchen" because something fragrant was always being
heated up on the potbelly stove.  We all chipped in various meats, cheeses,
breads and crackers that arrived from home, and this was our initiation to
the fruitcake special...the round one with the hole in the middle that you
filled with Scotch...hoo boy!  As far as decorations go, if it could burn,
forget it, it was fuel for the potbelly.  You might recall that on the 24th
of Dec.,1944, we flew a mission to Merzhkausen and were  diverted to
Snetterton-Heath upon returning so we didn't get back until the following
day.  Barracksmates were Martin Dee, Mike Fink, Howard Reeves, Roger
Kuykendall, Dutch Rape, Mike McCarty, Bill Moody, Norman Klein, Clifford
Muth, Walt Dennis, Harold Orenstein and others....miracle I remembered that
many! All spirits were high.  Cheers and Great Remembrances....Bob Hand



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Wed Dec 25 20:20:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:20:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Jacks Location
Message-ID: <30.340ebfbc.2b3b6d04@aol.com>

To My Dear Friends,Relatives,Inlaws, Outlaws, & Others,
     This is to inform you of the following: I am in Mesa Arizona. It is 
nearly as cold as Boise Idaho. I have my e-mail up and running. I sincerely 
wish you all (I'm from the South) A very Happy today and an excellent and 
joyful upcoming New Year.  I plan on being back in Boise by 3 January 2003.
     After a quick shower I'm Off to a turkey feast with some dear friends 
and some strangers who I hope I can convert to the same. ( No Edith, not 
turkeys, Friends)
     Love & Best Wishes,
       Jack Rencher 
      


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 02:12:29 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:12:29 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas in Molesworth
Message-ID: <1be.191004fe.2b3bbf8d@aol.com>

Bill Hoyt,
     The best Christmas I ever had was 25 Dec 1944.  The weather in England 
was terrible and had been for several days. Our troops on the continent were 
in dire need of some Air support during the Battle of the Bulge. On Dec 24th 
it cleared enough over the continent we could see to bomb. We took off on 
instruments in horrible weather but got visual bomb runs. When we got back to 
England it was still so socked in at Molesworth there was no way we could 
have got a formation on the ground without 50% loses. We landed at an English 
RAF base. It was my 35th mission. I had finished my missions and was due to 
be rotated.
     I had flown several missions with new crews on their first mission when 
my crew did not fly so I had a few more mission than did my crew.  The 
English fed us and put us up for the night. They refueled our birds and 
loaded them with Bombs so we could fly another mission on Christmas Day.  The 
evening of the 24th our CO Col.Raper (Later Draper or Rader) came down with a 
brand new pilot to fly with my crew.
     I told him No. They had sweated out one new pilot and it was not fair 
they had to sweat out another one this late in their 35.  He said "Rencher 
what am I going to do? We have to put up every plane we can and he is the 
only spare first pilot I've got. I said" I will fly with them tomorrow. I 
don't want them flying with an inexperienced pilot. He said "Don't be a dam 
fool Rencher you have flown your missions and will get shot down just as sure 
as hell and it will be on my consciences for the rest of my life. I said Col. 
I am not near as likely to get shot down as a new pilot and if they got shot 
down because I wasn't with them it would be on my conscious the rest of my 
life and I am more interested of my conscious than I am of yours. He said all 
right Rencher but you are going to get shot down just as sure as Hell.
     All night that night I couldn't sleep. His prophecy kept going through 
my head. I had never had fear like that before even when we went to Merseburg 
and this one should have been a milk run.  We got up the next morning. 
Christmas 1944 and started the Engines. As we taxied out to take off I had a 
gut feeling I couldn't shake.  The CO's prediction kept going through my 
mind. I knew in my own mind I would be the hardest Pilot in the 8th AF to 
shoot down and this was a milk run, but I didn't believe me I guess.
     Just as we were getting ready to start taking off a message came over 
the radio. The advance of the German troops was stopped. They didn't need us 
now, etc., and due to the very bad weather the mission was scrubbed. Taxi 
back and park them.
We did. Col. Raper promised me if I would go home he would put an old 
experienced pilot with my crew. He did and I did. It was the very best 
Christmas Day I ever spent, before or since.
     Best Wishes.
         Jack Rencher


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 17:35:26 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Fory Barton)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:35:26 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
Message-ID: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of =
SPAM.

Fory
Kuykendall's RO
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My Christmas package from my wife =
contained, of=20
all things, a can of SPAM.


 


Fory


Kuykendall's =
RO


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Thu Dec 26 22:14:13 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:14:13 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Christmas
In-Reply-To: <001f01c2ad05$2da7ab40$fe9a46c6@computer>
Message-ID: 

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--B_3123767653_15285070
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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> My Christmas package from my wife contained, of all things, a can of SPAM=
.
> =20
> Fory
> Kuykendall's RO
>=20

There=B9s an old saying: =B3Halitosis is better than no breath at all.=B2  Same
with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracksmate.  Happy New Year and
Cheers, Bob Hand

--B_3123767653_15285070
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Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable



Re: [303rd-Talk] Christmas



My Christmas package from my wife containe=
d, of all things, a can of SPAM.

 

Fory

Kuykendall's RO






There’s an old saying: “Halitosis is better than no breath at a=
ll.”  Same with SPAM.  Roger K. was good friend and barracks=
mate.  Happy New Year and Cheers, Bob Hand




--B_3123767653_15285070--



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Fri Dec 27 06:21:20 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:21:20 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #797 - 4 msgs
Message-ID: <119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60@aol.com>

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To Jack Rencher,
       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 
should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was 
the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all 
about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of 
resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I 
don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have 
always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense 
of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.
                                                                             
Jack Amram

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To Jack Rencher,

       Jack,your account of the anticipated mission on Christmas day,'44 should be read to every history class in the country.I'm sure patriotism was the fartherest thing from your mind and yet that's what patriotism is all about.Responsibility is taken so lightly these days and your sense of resposibility to your crew was paramount even if it cost you your life.I don't think we produce many people today with your standard of ethics.I have always enjoyed your ability to explain complex problems and your fine sense of humor but,in my book,you are a truly great man.

                                                                             Jack Amram

--part1_119.1cc4b5a5.2b3d4b60_boundary--


From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sat Dec 28 21:34:21 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Margaret Keating)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:34:21 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
Message-ID: <207F55D7-1AAC-11D7-921D-0003937677B4@cox.net>

Hi, Everyone!
I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas!
Looking at the print of "Any Gum Chum", by Keith Hill, I was just 
wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out to visit 
the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy, etc. 
all the time? It looks as if they came right up to the hardstands ..did 
they? I would love to hear all about how the crews got along with the 
people and children around Molesworth.
Many thanks, and have a very Happy and Healthy New Year!
Margaret Keating
P.S. I'll do more translations next month.



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Sun Dec 29 21:42:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:42:46 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum Chum
Message-ID: <001701c2af83$3ce7dc80$38bb9ace@mjpmtman>

Margaret Keating wrote--
 From: Margaret Keating 
 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Any Gum, Chum?
 Hi, Everyone!
I was just  wondering if the little kids from Molesworth really came out
to visit  the crews and planes, and did they really ask for gum and candy,
etc all the time?
Margaret Keating
===============================================
Since I was in Air Corp Supply I was never on a hard stand. Yes I
was subjeted to the "Any Gum Chum" roiutine. On my first pass into
Northampton we were surrounded by the "little people" on our exit from
the flicks [Picture show] Later in the war it c hanged to "Got a penny
mister".
One time I said i was sorry but I had no change. One of the boys sais " I
have!"
And pulled a handful of change from his pocket --Maurice J. Paulk



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Mon Dec 30 20:53:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tooley, Dave)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:53:52 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
Message-ID: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>

Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.

Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
Did you ever trade supplies?  

How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
base newspaper? 

Thanks and have great New Year!!

Dave




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 07:48:41 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 23:48:41 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Taps - Carson
Message-ID: <005b01c2b0a1$0a3369c0$9c91c8cf@altonmain>

CARSON, John Don, of Wooster, Ohio, died August 17, 2002.  A member of the
North Central Ohio Chapter, he served in the 360 BS, 303 BG, and was a POW
in Luft 3 and 10B.  He is survived by his wife of 54 years, Mary Jane.

I found the above announcement at the AX-POW site. I don't believe it has
been announced here yet, so I thought I would pass it on.
Gordy.

Gordon Alton
Box 855
Salt Spring Island, BC, Can V8K2W3
250-537-5913
tailgunnerson@uniserve.com
"Please remember those who gave so
much to keep your freedom free..."




From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:54:52 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (matthias leich)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0100
Subject: [303rd-Talk] CRASHSITE FROM BEETY JANE
Message-ID: <001201c2b0dc$93b93f40$166907d5@juliajmlyorzol>

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HI ,
MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM RESEARCHER FOR TWO MUSEUM. I LIVING IN =
OHRDRUF.
OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES NORTH FROM OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE =
CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS WAS I FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE =
MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.
BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR FORCE  CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS =
CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. PLEASE CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT =
ADRESS?
MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE CRASHSITE? LET ME KNOW THIS AND I =
SEND PER E-MAIL.
 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR ALL PILOTS AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.
WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM LUFTWAFFE JG4 AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP =
AND=20
FROM THE HELLENCREW. =20
WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE FOUND REMAINS AND BONES FROM =
WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. THIS WAS RESULT =
FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM KOVARSKA =
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN OBERHOF.
OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY.=20

BYE=20

MATTHIAS LEICH          ( SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH)

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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HI ,


MY NAME IS MATTHIAS LEICH. I'AM =
RESEARCHER FOR TWO=20
MUSEUM. I LIVING IN OHRDRUF.


OHRDRUF IS     15 MILES =
NORTH FROM=20
OBERHOF. IN THE AUGUST I FOUND THE CRASHSITE FROM BETTY JANE. ALL PARTS =
WAS I=20
FOUND GOES TO THE AIR BATTLE MUSEUM K=D6LLEDA.


BUT I HAVE FOUND ALSO THE AIR =
FORCE =20
CLOCK.TYPE ELGIN. I WILL GIVE THIS CLOCK FOR CREWMEMBER OR ASSOCIATION. =
PLEASE=20
CAN YOU GIVE ME CONTACT ADRESS?


MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE PICTURES FROM THE =
CRASHSITE?=20
LET ME KNOW THIS AND I SEND PER E-MAIL.


 THIS YEAR WE CREATE MONOUMENT FOR =
ALL PILOTS=20
AND CREWMEMBERS FROM WW2.


WE HAVE MANY CRASHSITES HERE. FROM =
LUFTWAFFE JG4=20
AND 55TH FIGHTERGROUP AND 


FROM THE HELLENCREW. =
 


WE HAVE WORK WITH THE CILHI AND HAVE =
FOUND REMAINS=20
AND BONES FROM WILLIAM.M.LEWIS . HE DIED 11.september 1944 IN OBERHOF. =
THIS WAS=20
RESULT FROM THE HARD WORK AIR BATTLE MUSEUM KOVARSKA. THE FRIENDS FROM =
KOVARSKA=20
HAVE ALSO FOUND THE DAUGHTER IN HOUSTEN. SHE WAS VERY GLAD AND WAS HERE =
IN=20
OBERHOF.


OK . THIS WAS LITTLE HISTORY. =



 


BYE 


 


MATTHIAS=20
LEICH          ( SORRY FOR =
MY BAD=20
ENGLISH)


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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 13:28:46 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

> Hope y'all had a wonderful Christmas.  Even though I am from the north I can
> say y'all cuz my wife's family is from Mississippi.
> 
> Did you have any contact with other units around you?  Did you know what was
> going on there?  Such as, what missions they flew, losses sustained, etc.?
> Did you ever trade supplies?
> 
> How was news disseminated around the base?  Word of mouth, bulletin board or
> base newspaper? 
> 
> Thanks and have great New Year!!
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 14:58:35 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bob Hand)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:58:35 -0500
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Contact with other units
In-Reply-To: <4DF4786A05BDCA4BA5AC00431981688032BB16@a0001-xpo0113-s.hodc.ad.allstate.com>
Message-ID: 

>Seems to me there was little "comparing" except on pass in London where you
might chance to meet an old buddy from training and check up on
classmates...like who bought the farm, who finished 35, stuff like that.
Otherwise, at least in my case, it was the pursuit of happiness or shopping or
buying an Eisenhower jacket, or watching the clock for that last train back to
Kettering. I tried to leave my worries at the interrogation table and not
contemplate how bad the next mission might be.  Cheers and Happy New Year... Bob
Hand  
> 
> 
> 



From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 18:34:47 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:34:47 EST
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest,
Message-ID: <15b.19b817d6.2b433d47@aol.com>

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when 
talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all 
of y'all.'
Bill D.

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Just to clear up the Southern use of y'all. That word is only used when talking to one person. If you are speaking to more than one person it's 'all of y'all.'

Bill D.

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From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:12:09 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Patrick Egan)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:12:09 -0800
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
In-Reply-To: <004001c2a86c$394235d0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>

Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to determine if I
have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com



-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems from his days in
the 8th

Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg



If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg

Thanks

______________________
Patrick Egan
Ph:  805-696-6844
Fax: 805-696-6883
patrick@openmake.com






From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:15:40 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Tom Beard)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:15:40 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Waist Gunners
Message-ID: <000901c2b111$c5ccf820$460c6ed8@webshark.com>

My dad was with the 360th sq of the 303rd. He was a waist gunner on "Duffy's
Tavern". My question is did a waist gunner always sit on a particular side
of the B-17, or did they move around? I am building a model of "Duffy's
Tavern", and want to know. Thanks...





From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com  Tue Dec 31 21:45:07 2002
From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Owen)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:45:07 -0600
Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
References: <007001c2b111$485c8ae0$6e010a0a@TONKATRUCK>
Message-ID: <000701c2b115$e7cb86e0$7068db40@billowen>

Patrick,
If you will go to the 303rd web site and click on LINKS you will find some
links to medals and decorations. Maybe you will find what you are looking
for.
Best Wishes,
Bill Owen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Egan" 
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals


>
> Can anyone suggest a website or other resource which I might consult to
determine if I
> have the configuration correct for my dad's ribbon bars.
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Egan
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:10 PM
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] My dad's medals
>
>
> I have been building a display case for my dad's medals and other emblems
from his days in
> the 8th
>
> Can anyone tell me if I have the configuration right for the ribbon bars
> I have a picture of the ribbons and wings at
http://www.egan.org/b17/medals.jpg
>
>
>
> If you are interested I have a picture of the whole case so far too at
> http://www.egan.org/b17/MedalCase-sml.jpg
>
> Thanks
>
> ______________________
> Patrick Egan
> Ph:  805-696-6844
> Fax: 805-696-6883
> patrick@openmake.com
>
>
>
>
>