From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 14:19:51 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:19:51 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Kiel Message-ID: Two years ago I visited the sub pens at Keil and it was something else. The pens are now owned by a private shipping company. But the harbor master gave me a guided tour. There is still a sub in the pens! According to the local maritime museum, the pens were never damaged by the Eighth. In January of 45, the RAF dropped Tall Boys, 12,000 pound HEs, and did major damage. When the pens were over run by the Allies, the British finished the job and blew them up with the sub inside. The director of the maritime museum also did some research on the flak batteries around Keil during the war and he gave me a complete copy! Man, no wonder you guys had a rough go of it over the target! It lists the number, size, and location of all the flak batteries, something over 200. If anyone is interested in a copy of this material, send me your address. I've got some great pics of the pens as they are today and as they were then, but I can't post them here. If anyone has an interest in visiting Keil, here are a few contacts: Seehafen Kiel (this is the harbour authority of the City of Kiel) Bollhoernkai 1 D-24103 Kiel Managing Director: Mr. Joerg Ruedel Phone: 011.49.431.9822100 Fax: 011.49.431.9822105 Stadtarchiv und Untere Denkmalschutzbehoerde, Stadt- und Schiffahrtsmuseum (The authority in charge with the archives of the City of Kiel, protection of historical monuments, City Museum, Shipping Museum) City Hall D-24103 Kiel Head of department: Dr. Juergen Jensen Phone: 011.49.431.9013420 Fax : 011.49.431.9013484 >From: "Ed Lamme" >Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> >Subject: [303rd-Talk] Kiel >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:55:54 -0600 > >To Lloyd Grant: > My name is Edwin (Ed) Lamme. I was bombardier on A. C. Strickland's >crew . On that mission we were flying in the #3 spot and after leaving the >target area we were under almost constant attack from FW l90's and ME >109's. They made a pass at our Group and right through our squadron. We >were flying in StricNine and sustained some damage, but no one was hit. On >a second pass through our squadron Stockton was hit and from what were told >his reflex action caused loss of control. As he was flying in #1 spot, all >of the squadron followed. Barker and the flight engineer regained control >and he led the squadron back to Molesworth. > > As our quarters were in the same complex as Stockton's, we knew them >quite well and that evening we were in John's room hoisting a few when he >was re-living the ordeal when he suddenly went out of control. Luckily one >of the participants in the room was our Flight Surgeon, a Capt. Lame, and >he sedated John and we were told the next day that he had been sent to a >rest facility I know he returned and finished out his tour. I agree that >he and the flight engineer both deserved commendation for not only saving >his crew, but leading the squadron back home. I cannot recall your father, >although I must have known him. > > Hope the above helps you out. > >Ed Lamme >junned@humboldt1.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 15:33:35 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:33:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report In-Reply-To: "Kevin Pearson" 's message of Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:58:29 -0600 Message-ID: <13146-3A7981CF-1085@storefull-243.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Kevin: How big is the St. Joseph Chamber of Commerce? When I retired from the Air Force in 1973 I went to work for the Austin, Texas Chamber of Commerce as the Director of Communications; as such I put out all the Chamber publications including a monthly magazine and monthly tabloid size newspaper. I did it for 13 years. Wheni retired I put out the Hell's Angels Newsletter for 13 years. I went through the Kiel Canal several year ago when i visited Rostock, Berlin, Helsinki, Oslo, etc. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 17:26:22 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:26:22 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) References: <17052-3A788CCA-139@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <000901c08c74$1abd9160$37904d0c@netzero> Hal, I had a feeling that this was not an "original" thought when I suggested it. Perhaps if scaled down to those that really have an interest the idea may have still a germ of feasibility. Don Kennan and I share an interest probably because his Uncle and my dad were original crew on Stocktons plane. I will take your advice. Thanks for your reply and best wishes. Lloyd Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Susskind" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Cc: "303rd Talk" <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > Lloyd Grant Re: your > sugggestion for compiling a History of the 303rd BG. We tried to > undertake this project about 8 years ago when Ed Miller was president of > the Association. It came up during a Board meeting. Each of the Squadron > reps were to be reponsible for their squadron inputs to include > organizationa chars, etc., Only one squadron, the 359th, completed its > task. Al Morton went above and beyond the original plans. He published > his repot in book form which he published on his own. That is the book > that Brian McGuire mentioned in his message a few weeks ago. If you > printed out Gary Moncur's 303rd Web site you would have the finest > history ever written. That married to Harry Gobrecht's Might in Fliight > is all anyone would ever need. Hal Susskind > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 16:03:44 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:03:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report In-Reply-To: "Bill Owen" 's message of Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:47:30 -0600 Message-ID: <23975-3A7988E0-672@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net> The last estimate I saw for the amount of time it takes to get any reply from any of the records organizations is TWO YEARS. That is what time it took for Charlie Schmeltzer to get an answer for his request for medal replacements--and they sent him the wrong medals. My suggestion to anyone requesting an answer from any of these organizations is to go through your congressman. That should speed it up by a year. I think it is easier to get elected president than to get any kind of an answer from records organizations. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 19:17:46 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:17:46 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report In-Reply-To: <23975-3A7988E0-672@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: "Bill Owen" 's message of Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:47:30 -0600 Message-ID: <3A79700A.2044.174F3F7@localhost> > The last estimate I saw for the amount of time it takes to get any reply > from any of the records organizations is TWO YEARS. One exception to the above is the AFHRA at Maxwell AFB. I made an E-mail request for info on the 303rd BG and the 360thBS, and they responded with a list of applicable microfilm reels within a couple days. After I ordered the reels, it took less than a month to get them. Unfortunately, I don't think they have MACR reports at Maxwell, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. Re to getting the MACRs from NARA, it might be best to just make a trip up to College Park. If you visit them, they assign a researcher to show you how to find things, and if you know specifically what you want, they can usually go right to it, and you'll have it within an hour or two. It might help also, to search the NAIL search engine on the web, but it is not easy. I did run across a listing for a microfilm reel containing MACR reports one time I was searching that site, but I couldn't find it the next time I looked, and it doesn't let you save the location of a sucessful search. Since the NARA archive is close to Baltimore, it might make an interesting side trip for those going to Baltimore in Sept. ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 1 19:38:39 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:38:39 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report Message-ID: Hi Hal: Good to hear from a fellow Chamber Exec! And Eighth Air Force friend! The St. Joseph MSA is about 160,000, but we are only 50 miles from downtown Kansas City and are very active there. My job is business attraction and I have done quite well with it here. Our budget is about $1 million a year. Newsletters! For the past seven years I have publish The Rally Point, a quarterly newsletter of the Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing of the 8th AFHS. My desktop publishing skills are getting pretty good. You should have gone to Barth while you went to Rostock. Stalag Luft 1 was at Barth and some foundations are left and a beautiful memorial. Kinda hard to get to Barth though. I've enjoyed your comments over the last few months. All I can say is I'm glad I wasn't with you in England during the war! I have read and written about the Eighth for the last 32 years, and the one thing I've learned is there was no glory in flying combat. I'm sure the "pucker factor" was exponential with each fighter and burst of flak. I did not do Kiel Canal, but I'll bet it was beautiful. Did you go up the east side of Kiel Harbor to the U-Boat that is on display. It puts the U-505 to shame. It looks brand new and maybe was - it's the U-493. Thanks for the comments! >From: susskind@webtv.net (Harold Susskind) >Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >CC: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report >Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:33:35 -0600 (CST) > >Kevin: How big is the St. Joseph Chamber of Commerce? When I retired >from the Air Force in 1973 I went to work for the Austin, Texas Chamber >of Commerce as the Director of Communications; as such I put out all the >Chamber publications including a monthly magazine and monthly tabloid >size newspaper. I did it for 13 years. Wheni retired I put out the >Hell's Angels Newsletter for 13 years. I went through the Kiel Canal >several year ago when i visited Rostock, Berlin, Helsinki, Oslo, etc. >Hal Susskind > > >_______________________________________________ >303rd-Talk mailing list >303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 14:26:28 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:26:28 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: <3A7A7D44.463.62A5E1@localhost> On one of my father's briefing sheets, there is a note saying that he was supposed to follow a certain plane to the takeoff, which I took to suggest that there was a specific order in which planes taxied prior to takeoff. This made me wonder just what this order might be, because I assume that it would be preferable for the 3 squadrons to assemble at about the same time rather than having one squadron assemble first (and this question is specific to the later periods when 3 13 plane squadrons flew on a mission). It seems logical that they would first send up the group assembly plane, then squadron lead planes, then the 2nd, 3rd and 4th flight lead planes from each squadron, and then the rest of the planes in some random order. Was something like this done, or did the squadrons take off as a unit, or was there some other order, or was it just random except for the lead planes? What was the order, and why? ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 19:47:41 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:47:41 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #144 - 4 msgs References: <20010202170614.47FD3537C3@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <002001c08d51$0244bae0$4ebb9ace@mjpmtman> > Message: 1 > From: susskind@webtv.net (Harold Susskind) > Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:03:44 -0600 (CST) > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report > > The last estimate I saw for the amount of time it takes to get any reply > from any of the records organizations is TWO YEARS. > Hal Susskind I don't know if this information is worth anything or not. BUT --I applied for all my awards last August through the Hall County VA Service officer. They told me it wouild take a year at least. I know of another applicant that took a year [almost to the day ] to get his medals, awards, ribbons etc. I received all my military records in about a week from St. Louis by going through the county office. I still have 7 months to go before I find out if I am "lucky." From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 19:38:38 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:38:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) In-Reply-To: "Lloyd J H Grant" 's message of Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <2234-3A7B0CBE-3474@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Lloyd Grant Somwheres in my research files I have a copy of the early history of the 427th sqdn. I'll look for it when I get back from the hospital. I'm due for a hip replacement of my hip replacement on February 22nd. The hip they put in was recalled because of a defect. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 20:38:47 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:38:47 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: Here is my guess Bill and please note I do say guess. The guys who were there will know for sure and I am sure the practice varied from Group to Group. I'm sure at breifing all pilots were told the order of takeoff. The military is pretty exact when it comes to procedures. And I am also guessing colored flares were used to signal each squadron. I know flares were fired to signal start engines, taxi, and to signal each aircraft its turn to take off. Keep in mind those runways were over a mile in length and on a foggy morning, pilots could not see if an a/c had cleared the runway or not. There were mobile control towers that sat at the end of runways on takeoff and return and were charged with firing flares to signal each plane it's turn in landing and taking off. I think you are right about squadrons and flights within each squadron in terms of order. But we need to hear the truth from a vet. Come on, Hal, how about it? Sorry to hear about your hip replacement, I know that can be tough! But remember this, you have lived through worse! Best of luck my friend! Kevin >From: "Bill Jones" >Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? >Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:26:28 -0500 > > On one of my father's briefing sheets, there is a note saying that he >was supposed >to follow a certain plane to the takeoff, which I took to suggest that >there was a >specific order in which planes taxied prior to takeoff. This made me >wonder just what >this order might be, because I assume that it would be preferable for the 3 >squadrons >to assemble at about the same time rather than having one squadron assemble >first >(and this question is specific to the later periods when 3 13 plane >squadrons flew on >a mission). > It seems logical that they would first send up the group assembly >plane, then >squadron lead planes, then the 2nd, 3rd and 4th flight lead planes from >each squadron, >and then the rest of the planes in some random order. Was something like >this >done, or did the squadrons take off as a unit, or was there some other >order, or was it >just random except for the lead planes? What was the order, and why? > > > > > ***************************************************************** > *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * > * wejones@megalink.net * > * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * > * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * > ***************************************************************** > >_______________________________________________ >303rd-Talk mailing list >303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 20:58:08 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:58:08 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) In-Reply-To: <2234-3A7B0CBE-3474@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: "Lloyd J H Grant" 's message of Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7AD910.19706.1C946FA@localhost> > Lloyd Grant Somwheres in > my research files I have a copy of the early history of the 427th sqdn. Re squadron histories, I had remembered seeing a "history of the 360th squadron" on the microfilm I have, (and I think I remember seeing something similar for the 359th also), so I went back and looked at it yesterday, after this topic came up. Unfortunately, the "history" there was the "very early" history, ie from the inception of the squadron through the early months of deployment, but had little or nothing for the periods after early 1943. The microfilm also showed the pages of a very detailed journal diary for the squadron, which ended I think in May of 1943. I think that there was another historical passage on the microfilm after the Jan 10th 300th mission, but overall, most of the what they have there is for the early part of the squadron's existance, but not much for the later periods. Despite this, the information on the microfilm might make the beginnings of a squadron history. There would have to be considerable input from people with stories about the periods after early 1943 though. The microfilm for the later periods of the war has mission by mission information regarding what planes and crews flew to each target, and day by day administrative records of transfers in and out of the squadron, promotions, etc, and very brief narratives of each mission, but is lacking any personal accounts of what was going on. It would be possible to put together an impersonal squadron history from the microfilm, but it would be a lot of work. Might be worth trying though. ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 21:42:03 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:42:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? In-Reply-To: "Kevin Pearson" 's message of Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:38:47 -0600 Message-ID: <27025-3A7B29AB-4331@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Kevin I'll let one of the pilots answer what they did from start engines to takeoff, climb out and forming up and the use of flares, etc. My work started when we departed base to arrival back at base. Otherwise the pilot's union will put me in the doghouse. This is my second hip operation. The first hip was recalled like the Firetone tires. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 22:47:28 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:47:28 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) References: <2234-3A7B0CBE-3474@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <001a01c08d6a$20fa53a0$10904d0c@netzero> Dear Hal, Many thanks , but no rush. I have been at this for this for almost 3 years now (slow learner) and if not for the people like yourself , and the others I have had the good fortune to have met via the 303rd web site, I would have just given up. Thanks to you , and everyone for your help, understanding , and most of all ; patience. I think that I speak for everyone in saying that I hope your "new landing gear" will serve you well. Best wishes and a speedy recovery, Hal. Your friend, Lloyd Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Susskind" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > Lloyd Grant Somwheres in > my research files I have a copy of the early history of the 427th sqdn. > I'll look for it when I get back from the hospital. I'm due for a hip > replacement of my hip replacement on February 22nd. The hip they put in > was recalled because of a defect. Hal Susskind > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 2 23:19:16 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:19:16 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) References: "Lloyd J H Grant" 's message of Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:26:22 -0500 <3A7AD910.19706.1C946FA@localhost> Message-ID: <002401c08d6e$91496840$10904d0c@netzero> Bill, I appreciate your comments and insights. I think you have caught the gist of what I had in mind; to wit, I would like to focus my attention on the 427th. If I can learn enough about the squadron that my dad flew with then perhaps I can help others whose fathers and relatives also were in the 427th. The history and experiences of each unit make up the whole of the total. The sum of which is , of course, the 303rd BG(H). Trying to eat the whole pie at one sitting is a daunting task I am at the point now where I recognize aircraft , names, and faces. Once again, thank you. Very best, Lloyd Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Jones" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > > Lloyd Grant Somwheres in > > my research files I have a copy of the early history of the 427th sqdn. > > Re squadron histories, I had remembered seeing a "history of the 360th squadron" on > the microfilm I have, (and I think I remember seeing something similar for the 359th > also), so I went back and looked at it yesterday, after this topic came up. > Unfortunately, the "history" there was the "very early" history, ie from the inception of > the squadron through the early months of deployment, but had little or nothing for the > periods after early 1943. The microfilm also showed the pages of a very detailed journal > diary for the squadron, which ended I think in May of 1943. I think that there was > another historical passage on the microfilm after the Jan 10th 300th mission, but > overall, most of the what they have there is for the early part of the squadron's > existance, but not much for the later periods. > Despite this, the information on the microfilm might make the beginnings of a > squadron history. There would have to be considerable input from people with stories > about the periods after early 1943 though. > The microfilm for the later periods of the war has mission by mission information > regarding what planes and crews flew to each target, and day by day administrative > records of transfers in and out of the squadron, promotions, etc, and very brief > narratives of each mission, but is lacking any personal accounts of what was going on. > It would be possible to put together an impersonal squadron history from the microfilm, > but it would be a lot of work. Might be worth trying though. > > > > > ***************************************************************** > *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * > * wejones@megalink.net * > * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * > * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * > ***************************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 01:32:39 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Wanda Shepherd) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:32:39 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #143 - 6 msgs References: <20010201182854.0EE99536C6@pairlist.net> Message-ID: <3A7B5FB7.2421175F@zoomnet.net> UNSUBSCRIBE 303rd-talk-request@303rdBGA.com wrote: > Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to > 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 303rd-talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Missing Air Crew Report (Bill Owen) > 2. Kiel (Ed Lamme) > 3. Re: A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) (Harold Susskind) > 4. Re: Kiel (Kevin Pearson) > 5. Re: Missing Air Crew Report (Harold Susskind) > 6. Re: A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) (Lloyd J H Grant) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "Bill Owen" > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:56:15 -0600 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Thank you, John. I just finished sending her an Email with all the pertinent > info. Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:57 PM > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report > > > Bill, > > In mid July I requested the MACR# 11199 for the Cureton crew. Most of > > this crew was KIA on the 21Nov44 mission to Merseburg. There was only a > > single survivor. After several emails a microfiche and a hard copy > > materialized in September. I dealt with Regina Davis who may be reached > at > > regina.davis@arch2.nara.gov. I hope this is of some assistance. Much of > the > > information in the MACR is administrative in nature. If any German (KU) > > reports are available they will also be included. > > > > John A. Jenkins > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 303rd-Talk mailing list > > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Ed Lamme" > To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:55:54 -0600 > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Kiel > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C08B8D.877ADE80 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > To Lloyd Grant: > My name is Edwin (Ed) Lamme. I was bombardier on A. C. = > Strickland's crew . On that mission we were flying in the #3 spot and = > after leaving the target area we were under almost constant attack from = > FW l90's and ME 109's. They made a pass at our Group and right through = > our squadron. We were flying in StricNine and sustained some damage, = > but no one was hit. On a second pass through our squadron Stockton was = > hit and from what were told his reflex action caused loss of control. = > As he was flying in #1 spot, all of the squadron followed. Barker and = > the flight engineer regained control and he led the squadron back to = > Molesworth. =20 > > As our quarters were in the same complex as Stockton's, we knew = > them quite well and that evening we were in John's room hoisting a few = > when he was re-living the ordeal when he suddenly went out of control. = > Luckily one of the participants in the room was our Flight Surgeon, a = > Capt. Lame, and he sedated John and we were told the next day that he = > had been sent to a rest facility I know he returned and finished out = > his tour. I agree that he and the flight engineer both deserved = > commendation for not only saving his crew, but leading the squadron back = > home. I cannot recall your father, although I must have known him. > > Hope the above helps you out. > > Ed Lamme > junned@humboldt1.com > =20 > > ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C08B8D.877ADE80 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
To Lloyd Grant:
>
     My name is Edwin (Ed) = > Lamme.  I=20 > was bombardier on A. C. Strickland's crew .  On that mission we = > were flying=20 > in the #3 spot and after leaving the target area we were under almost = > constant=20 > attack from FW l90's and ME 109's.  They made a pass at our Group = > and right=20 > through our squadron.  We were flying in StricNine and sustained = > some=20 > damage, but no one was hit.  On a second pass through our squadron = > Stockton=20 > was hit and from what were told his reflex action caused loss of = > control. =20 > As he was flying in #1 spot, all of the squadron followed.  Barker = > and the=20 > flight engineer regained control and he led the squadron back to=20 > Molesworth. 
>
 
>
     As our quarters were in the same complex = > as=20 > Stockton's, we knew them quite well and that evening we were in John's = > room=20 > hoisting a few when he was re-living the ordeal when he suddenly went = > out of=20 > control.  Luckily one of the participants in the room was our = > Flight=20 > Surgeon, a Capt. Lame, and he sedated John and we were told the next day = > that he=20 > had been sent to a rest facility  I know he returned and finished = > out his=20 > tour.  I agree that he and the flight engineer both deserved = > commendation=20 > for not only saving his crew, but leading the squadron back home.  = > I cannot=20 > recall your father, although I must have known him.
>
 
>
     Hope the above helps you out.
>
 
>
Ed Lamme
> >
  id=3D__#Ath#SignaturePos__> 
> > ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C08B8D.877ADE80-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: susskind@webtv.net (Harold Susskind) > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:08:10 -0600 (CST) > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Cc: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd Talk) > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Lloyd Grant Re: your > sugggestion for compiling a History of the 303rd BG. We tried to > undertake this project about 8 years ago when Ed Miller was president of > the Association. It came up during a Board meeting. Each of the Squadron > reps were to be reponsible for their squadron inputs to include > organizationa chars, etc., Only one squadron, the 359th, completed its > task. Al Morton went above and beyond the original plans. He published > his repot in book form which he published on his own. That is the book > that Brian McGuire mentioned in his message a few weeks ago. If you > printed out Gary Moncur's 303rd Web site you would have the finest > history ever written. That married to Harry Gobrecht's Might in Fliight > is all anyone would ever need. Hal Susskind > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "Kevin Pearson" > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Kiel > Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:19:51 -0600 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Two years ago I visited the sub pens at Keil and it was something else. The > pens are now owned by a private shipping company. But the harbor master > gave me a guided tour. There is still a sub in the pens! According to the > local maritime museum, the pens were never damaged by the Eighth. In > January of 45, the RAF dropped Tall Boys, 12,000 pound HEs, and did major > damage. When the pens were over run by the Allies, the British finished the > job and blew them up with the sub inside. The director of the maritime > museum also did some research on the flak batteries around Keil during the > war and he gave me a complete copy! Man, no wonder you guys had a rough go > of it over the target! It lists the number, size, and location of all the > flak batteries, something over 200. If anyone is interested in a copy of > this material, send me your address. I've got some great pics of the pens > as they are today and as they were then, but I can't post them here. If > anyone has an interest in visiting Keil, here are a few contacts: > > Seehafen Kiel (this is the harbour authority of the City of Kiel) > Bollhoernkai 1 > D-24103 Kiel > Managing Director: Mr. Joerg Ruedel > Phone: 011.49.431.9822100 > Fax: 011.49.431.9822105 > > Stadtarchiv und Untere Denkmalschutzbehoerde, Stadt- und Schiffahrtsmuseum > (The authority in charge with the archives of the City of Kiel, protection > of historical monuments, City Museum, Shipping Museum) > City Hall > D-24103 Kiel > Head of department: Dr. Juergen Jensen > Phone: 011.49.431.9013420 > Fax : 011.49.431.9013484 > > >From: "Ed Lamme" > >Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > >To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> > >Subject: [303rd-Talk] Kiel > >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:55:54 -0600 > > > >To Lloyd Grant: > > My name is Edwin (Ed) Lamme. I was bombardier on A. C. Strickland's > >crew . On that mission we were flying in the #3 spot and after leaving the > >target area we were under almost constant attack from FW l90's and ME > >109's. They made a pass at our Group and right through our squadron. We > >were flying in StricNine and sustained some damage, but no one was hit. On > >a second pass through our squadron Stockton was hit and from what were told > >his reflex action caused loss of control. As he was flying in #1 spot, all > >of the squadron followed. Barker and the flight engineer regained control > >and he led the squadron back to Molesworth. > > > > As our quarters were in the same complex as Stockton's, we knew them > >quite well and that evening we were in John's room hoisting a few when he > >was re-living the ordeal when he suddenly went out of control. Luckily one > >of the participants in the room was our Flight Surgeon, a Capt. Lame, and > >he sedated John and we were told the next day that he had been sent to a > >rest facility I know he returned and finished out his tour. I agree that > >he and the flight engineer both deserved commendation for not only saving > >his crew, but leading the squadron back home. I cannot recall your father, > >although I must have known him. > > > > Hope the above helps you out. > > > >Ed Lamme > >junned@humboldt1.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: susskind@webtv.net (Harold Susskind) > Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:33:35 -0600 (CST) > To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Cc: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Air Crew Report > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Kevin: How big is the St. Joseph Chamber of Commerce? When I retired > from the Air Force in 1973 I went to work for the Austin, Texas Chamber > of Commerce as the Director of Communications; as such I put out all the > Chamber publications including a monthly magazine and monthly tabloid > size newspaper. I did it for 13 years. Wheni retired I put out the > Hell's Angels Newsletter for 13 years. I went through the Kiel Canal > several year ago when i visited Rostock, Berlin, Helsinki, Oslo, etc. > Hal Susskind > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Lloyd J H Grant" > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:26:22 -0500 > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Hal, I had a feeling that this was not an "original" thought when I > suggested it. Perhaps if scaled down to those that really have an interest > the idea may have still a germ of feasibility. Don Kennan and I share an > interest probably because his Uncle and my dad were original crew on > Stocktons plane. I will take your advice. Thanks for your reply and best > wishes. Lloyd Grant. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harold Susskind" > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Cc: "303rd Talk" <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] A suggestion for the history of the 303rd BG(H) > > > Lloyd Grant Re: your > > sugggestion for compiling a History of the 303rd BG. We tried to > > undertake this project about 8 years ago when Ed Miller was president of > > the Association. It came up during a Board meeting. Each of the Squadron > > reps were to be reponsible for their squadron inputs to include > > organizationa chars, etc., Only one squadron, the 359th, completed its > > task. Al Morton went above and beyond the original plans. He published > > his repot in book form which he published on his own. That is the book > > that Brian McGuire mentioned in his message a few weeks ago. If you > > printed out Gary Moncur's 303rd Web site you would have the finest > > history ever written. That married to Harry Gobrecht's Might in Fliight > > is all anyone would ever need. Hal Susskind > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 303rd-Talk mailing list > > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > > End of 303rd-Talk Digest From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 04:01:25 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:01:25 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: <70.7842386.27acdc95@aol.com> I'll Tell you what I think I remember. Harry will probably answer this too as will President Dick. We assembled on a radio beacon that was 19 and one half miles west of our field. The four 303rd squadrons took off and climbed to our assigned altitude and circled the beacon in a counter clockwise direction until our 12 or 13 planes were in there assigned positions. The Groups from Grafton Underwood and Kimbolton used this beacon also. So each squadron was assigned a different altitude to assemble. and each group was assigned a time to leave the beacon so we would arrive at the English coast out in a line one close behind the one another. It is only logical that the first to leave the beacon would be the first to take off and assemble at the higher altitudes. It is also logical that the lead planes in each squadron would be the first to take off so the following planes would have something to get into formation on. Be aware the Army was not always logical. When we climbed up thru clouds, Fog Low visibility, etc., we would have the tail gunner flash a Morris code signal out the tail. Each squadron was assigned a different letter. Then if you saw a plane ahead of you that was flashing your squadrons letter you could just follow him and if every one did this we would all be in a line to the assembly point. As we had 3 groups taking off very close to each other and heading for the same radio station this helped avoid mid air collisions in the fog and speeded up the time it took us all to get into our formations. For a while we had a few planes that had lot of flashing lights for us to assemble on but as I remember this did not work too well and was discarded. Once you got to the station at your squadrons altitude and saw a partial formation making a big left turn around the station it was easy to cut inside of them in a smaller circle, catch them without even speeding up and getting into your position in the formation. Once they left the station and were going in a straight line it was hard to catch them and used a lot of fuel that you might need just before you landed when and if you got back. If this doesn't answer your questions I hope Harry or Dick will do better. Jack Rencher From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 04:29:17 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:29:17 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: <4b.6f7faac.27ace31d@cs.com> The assembly point after takeoff was known as the 'Harrington Buncher'. Dad has referred to this location many times in conversation. You may view a depiction of Molesworth and the 'Buncher' at www.303rdbga.com/aircraft-assembly.html. Additionally, from what I can tell from my visit to Molesworth this past June, the 303rd BG Memorial is positioned somewhere near the east end of the main east-west runway. John A. Jenkins From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 04:57:25 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:57:25 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour Message-ID: <002601c08d9d$d1357fa0$0e8f4d0c@netzero> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08D73.E43F8F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many of you flew more than one tour of duty. Considering the heavy = losses early in the air war what motivated you to take such a risk = again? =20 If you re-upped for a second tour how much time did you get for R&R = before you returned to combat status? Would you be assigned to the same Group, or , assigned where needed? = (Did you have a choice?) How did Casablanca fit in to the scheme of things? ( It seems an odd = place to decommission an air force group.) Many of you were career Air Force members who served 20 or more years. = What happened after the war in Europe was won? Where were you assigned? = ( beside the obvious). How many of you transitioned to SAC? Well, there's a plate full, hey. Looking forward to all responses with = thanks in advance. Sincere regards, Lloyd Grant. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08D73.E43F8F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many of you flew more than one tour of = duty. =20 Considering the heavy losses early in the air war what motivated you to = take=20 such a risk again? 
If you re-upped for a second tour how = much time did=20 you get for R&R before you returned to combat status?
Would you be assigned to the same = Group, or ,=20 assigned where needed?  (Did you have a choice?)
How did Casablanca fit in to the = scheme of=20 things? ( It seems an odd place to decommission an air force=20 group.)
Many of you were career Air Force = members who=20 served 20 or more years.  What happened after the war in Europe was = won?=20 Where were you assigned? ( beside the obvious).
How many of you transitioned to = SAC?
Well, there's a plate full, hey.  = Looking=20 forward to all responses with thanks in advance.
Sincere regards, Lloyd=20 Grant.
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08D73.E43F8F20-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 05:16:10 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:16:10 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? References: <70.7842386.27acdc95@aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c08da0$6d7f0aa0$0e8f4d0c@netzero> Jack, your response to this helps to explain alot about the take-off and assembly procedure. It occurs to me that the first aircraft up would certainly have a higher rate of fuel consumption as they circled awaiting the others to join up. Was fuel allotted to allow for this? If so how might it have affected take-off weight? If extra fuel was not allotted, were there any other compensatory measures calculated in? Thanks. Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? > I'll Tell you what I think I remember. Harry will probably answer this too > as will President Dick. > > We assembled on a radio beacon that was 19 and one half miles west of our > field. The four 303rd squadrons took off and climbed to our assigned > altitude and circled the beacon in a counter clockwise direction until our 12 > or 13 planes were in there assigned positions. The Groups from Grafton > Underwood and Kimbolton used this beacon also. So each squadron was assigned > a different altitude to assemble. and each group was assigned a time to leave > the beacon so we would arrive at the English coast out in a line one close > behind the one another. It is only logical that the first to leave the > beacon would be the first to take off and assemble at the higher altitudes. > It is also logical that the lead planes in each squadron would be the first > to take off so the following planes would have something to get into > formation on. Be aware the Army was not always logical. When we climbed up > thru clouds, Fog Low visibility, etc., we would have the tail gunner flash a > Morris code signal out the tail. Each squadron was assigned a different > letter. Then if you saw a plane ahead of you that was flashing your > squadrons letter you could just follow him and if every one did this we would > all be in a line to the assembly point. As we had 3 groups taking off very > close to each other and heading for the same radio station this helped avoid > mid air collisions in the fog and speeded up the time it took us all to get > into our formations. > > For a while we had a few planes that had lot of flashing lights for us to > assemble on but as I remember this did not work too well and was discarded. > Once you got to the station at your squadrons altitude and saw a partial > formation making a big left turn around the station it was easy to cut inside > of them in a smaller circle, catch > them without even speeding up and getting into your position in the > formation. Once they left the station and were going in a straight line it > was hard to catch them and used a lot of fuel that you might need just before > you landed when and if you got back. > If this doesn't answer your questions I hope Harry or Dick will do better. > Jack Rencher > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 07:07:09 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 02:07:09 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: Lloyd, We all carried the same fuel load. The first off were the first to land. As a general rule the first off were in the front of the line of Bombers. The further back from the lead you were flying the more difficult it was to hold your position in the formation and the more fuel you had to use. The easiest position in the formation to fly was the lead plane. After he got to altitude he could put the plane on auto pilot and never touch his throttles again until after we dropped the Bombs and started to let down. The tail end charlies were changing power settings constantly hence using more fuel. The closer you were to the lead the easier it was to hold formation and the less fuel you used. The lead rarely ran out of fuel. Once in a while they ran out of brains except when Hal was lead Navigator. The late models carried 1732 gallons as I remember and on the long missions we all took off with them full and got back with not much or less if you came back on 3 engines From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 07:51:09 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 02:51:09 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Message-ID: Lloyd, I just read the last reply I sent you. I hit the wrong key. It was 2732 gallons. It must be late. Shame on me. Goodnight Jack From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 13:49:37 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:49:37 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? In-Reply-To: <70.7842386.27acdc95@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A7BC621.7434.49F931@localhost> > I'll Tell you what I think I remember. Harry will probably answer this too > as will President Dick. > > We assembled on a radio beacon that was 19 and one half miles west of our > field. The four 303rd squadrons took off and climbed to our assigned > altitude and circled the beacon in a counter clockwise direction until our 12 > or 13 planes were in there assigned positions. The Groups from Grafton > Underwood and Kimbolton used this beacon also. Thanks for the nice description of T.O. and assembly. One of the missions I have been researching, had comments about running short of fuel because it took them longer to assemble because a squadron from another bomb group ("C" group from the 40th CBW) flew through their assembly circle going the wrong direction, causing the whole squadron to scatter and take longer to re-assemble. I assume this meant that the circle from a neighboring combat wing got a bit too wide and intercected with the 303rdBG (41st CBW) circle? In any event, the assembly operation sounds like it must have been a complicated thing to accomplish. Thanks. ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 13:49:37 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:49:37 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A7BC621.10607.49F8C5@localhost> > Lloyd, I just read the last reply I sent you. I hit the wrong key. It was > 2732 gallons. > It must be late. Shame on me. Goodnight Jack I was just about to ask about this, because I have a bunch of these little note sheets (see http://wejones.ftdata.com/wejones/apr5nt.jpg for an example) which down at the bottom said 2700 gas on most of them. A couple of them said 2500, but they were for shorter missions. Thanks for clairifying that all planes carried the same fuel. I was wondering about that too. ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 20:51:13 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 15:51:13 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? References: Message-ID: <001701c08e23$0eebae20$e68e4d0c@netzero> Thanks for shedding light on this topic, Jack. Best, Lloyd. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? > Lloyd, I just read the last reply I sent you. I hit the wrong key. It was > 2732 gallons. > It must be late. Shame on me. Goodnight Jack > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 22:08:17 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Georgia McSorley) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:08:17 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Keil Raid Message-ID: Arni Sumarlidason wonders if there is anyone who remembers the Keil Raid on June 13,1943? From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sat Feb 3 21:38:14 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:38:14 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour Message-ID: <6a.b046784.27add446@aol.com> Well, I'll tell ya, pardner, one tour was enough for this person, and my hat's off forever to the man who tackled a second. That strange rumbling I felt in my gut around noon today (while in the midst of a garage sale, of all things!)....was my innards recalling that it was 56 years to the day since my Last Raid....Berlin....along with Fink's crew as bombardier....with over a thousand other aircraft in the skies. Amazing to still be alive and functioning after that and all that's happened since....thanks to all who covered my rear. Best wishes and cheers, Bob and Nyela Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 00:11:53 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Jack) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 19:11:53 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] digest form.. References: <20010201182854.0EE99536C6@pairlist.net> <3A7B5FB7.2421175F@zoomnet.net> Message-ID: <00fd01c08e3f$14c4cea0$cdd14e0c@jack> Please unsuscribe.... Send only in digest form.. Thank you... Jack Turkel From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 03:32:03 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Victor Howard) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 19:32:03 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject) Message-ID: <004401c08e5b$0c80a720$2691623f@default> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C08E17.FC876EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone know of George Underwood's plane and crew, ditched in Channel on = Feb 22, 1944. All crew lost. My uncle was Charles Phipps, R.O. 360th = sqd. vhoward@technonet.com=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C08E17.FC876EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone know of George Underwood's plane = and crew,=20 ditched in Channel on Feb 22, 1944. All crew lost. My uncle was Charles = Phipps,=20 R.O. 360th sqd.
vhoward@technonet.com =
  
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C08E17.FC876EA0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 04:09:23 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:09:23 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Merlin Miller Message-ID: <50.10f246e8.27ae2ff3@aol.com> --part1_50.10f246e8.27ae2ff3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone remember S/SGT. I have known Merlin Miller for about a year. He was with Hullar's crew. Miller was a tailgunner on the Vicous Virgin, OLD Squaw, and Lucious Lady I believe. Terry Lucas Thor542086@aol.com --part1_50.10f246e8.27ae2ff3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone remember S/SGT.  I have known Merlin Miller for about a year. He
was with Hullar's crew. Miller was a  tailgunner on the Vicous Virgin, OLD
Squaw, and Lucious Lady I believe.
Terry Lucas Thor542086@aol.com --part1_50.10f246e8.27ae2ff3_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 18:18:08 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Brian McGuire) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:18:08 -0000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dick Cheney Message-ID: <009401c08ed6$d4e81920$f80110ac@Betac.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C08ED6.D3247020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't know how many of you missed this, but it is well worth reading. The reason for military Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:13:15 -0500 >From the voice of Vice President-Elect Dick Cheney... On my way to work last week, I stopped behind a purple Geo Metro with my least favorite bumper sticker ever plastered across the back. It read: "It'll be a great day when schools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber." At that moment, I realized who the most undervalued and under = appreciated segment of society is. And it ain't teachers. Teachers, I believe, rank second on that list. Heading the list are the men and women of the forces, who, throughout history, have protected our country from the Hitler's and Stalin's - = they who would have had our white children marching to the school bus in jackboots and our minority children locked up in laboratories and labor camps. The US military -- the most powerful and influential group of people in the world, hands-down -- gets an awfully bad rap these days. Many = Americans seem to think that simply because the communist Soviet Union no longer exists, the world is as safe as Beaver Cleaver's neighborhood. This, of course, ignores three facts: (1) Dozens of countries have nuclear weapons that could kill millions of people with the turn of a key. (2) Leaders of several countries (e.g. North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Lebanon and perhaps China and Russia) would love to see the US = and its people blown to pieces and, most importantly (3) The US has the greatest collection of human, economic, natural and technological resources anywhere on Earth, making it the greatest natural target for military aggression. Though some would like to fashion the US of the 21st Century as a = flowery feel-good fantasy where war and violence are mere after thoughts of a time gone by, that can never be the case. As bad as our crime and drug problems are, we're still considered the jewel of the planet by the half = of the world that has yet to make its first phone call. In ancient Greece, the people of Athens were unparalleled world leaders in art, philosophy and technology. Their rivals in Sparta were not; = instead, the Spartans built massive, well-trained armies. When the two countries fought, who won? Sparta. And guess who lost their entire civilization because they didn't think it was important to build an appropriate army? Athens! Right now, the US has the best of Athens and Sparta: we are the most cultured and most well-defended country in the world. As we continue to lower our defenses by devaluing the military, we open ourselves wider = and wider to a takeover. A takeover of the US? Ridiculous, one might say. But why does it seem so unlikely? Because the power and protection of the US military has been so overwhelming in the last century that Americans have been free to enjoy a comfort level = unlike any in the world. We all take it for granted that we will never be invaded = by another country, but few other countries can afford to be so sure of themselves. It's not only Americans who can go to bed feeling safe. Children everywhere from Israel to England, from Brazil to Japan - know that, if their country is attacked, the US will be there to help. On TV, the military is often represented by stiff, buttoned-down generals or = the occasional drill sergeant who is accused of feeling up a female recruit. In reality, things are much different. The men and women of the armed = forces are, in most ways, just like everyone else: they are mechanics, pilots, cooks, photographers, engineers, secretaries and X-ray technicians. They work from 8 to 5 and then come home to their families. The one difference comes when the US or any of its allies is threatened by a foreign power. In that case, military people pack up and ship out, = off to fight -- and many times die -- so the rest of the country, including teachers, can continue their lives without interruption. Teachers mold young minds into intelligent, independent people, and they should be admired for the job they do; however, I don't know any = teachers who are required to catch bullets and swallow shrapnel if so ordered by the principal. So, old-fashioned as it may seem, I'm happy to give my taxes to the military and tell the tots and teachers to fire up the oven if they want = extra dough. Make muffins, cookies and candy and be happy you're allowed to = Because, as the old saying goes, if it wasn't for the US military, we'd all be speaking German now." "It is easy to take liberty for granted, when you have never had it = taken from you." Dick Cheney ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C08ED6.D3247020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Don't know how many of you = missed this,=20 but it is well worth reading.

 

The reason for military

Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:13:15 -0500

From the voice of Vice President-Elect Dick Cheney...

On my way to work last week, I stopped behind a purple Geo Metro with = my

least favorite bumper sticker ever plastered across the back. It = read:

"It'll be a great day when schools have all the money they need and = the

Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber."

At that moment, I realized who the most undervalued and under = appreciated

segment of society is. And it ain't teachers. Teachers, I believe, = rank

second on that list.

Heading the list are the men and women of the forces, who, = throughout

history, have protected our country from the Hitler's and Stalin's - = they

who would have had our white children marching to the school bus = in

jackboots and our minority children locked up in laboratories and = labor

camps.

The US military -- the most powerful and influential group of people = in

the world, hands-down -- gets an awfully bad rap these days. Many=20 Americans

seem to think that simply because the communist Soviet Union no = longer

exists, the world is as safe as Beaver Cleaver's neighborhood.

This, of course, ignores three facts:

(1) Dozens of countries have nuclear weapons that could kill millions = of

people with the turn of a key.

(2) Leaders of several countries (e.g. North Korea, Iraq, Iran,

Libya, Lebanon and perhaps China and Russia) would love to see the US = and

its people blown to pieces and, most importantly

(3) The US has the greatest collection of human, economic, = natural

and technological resources anywhere on Earth, making it the = greatest

natural target for military aggression.

Though some would like to fashion the US of the 21st Century as a = flowery

feel-good fantasy where war and violence are mere after thoughts of = a

time gone by, that can never be the case. As bad as our crime and = drug

problems are, we're still considered the jewel of the planet by the = half of=20 the

world that has yet to make its first phone call.

In ancient Greece, the people of Athens were unparalleled world = leaders

in art, philosophy and technology. Their rivals in Sparta were not;=20 instead,

the Spartans built massive, well-trained armies. When the two = countries

fought, who won? Sparta. And guess who lost their entire = civilization

because they didn't think it was important to build an appropriate = army?

Athens!

Right now, the US has the best of Athens and Sparta: we are the = most

cultured and most well-defended country in the world. As we continue = to

lower our defenses by devaluing the military, we open ourselves wider = and

wider to a takeover. A takeover of the US?

Ridiculous, one might say. But why does it seem so unlikely? Because = the

power and protection of the US military has been so overwhelming in = the

last century that Americans have been free to enjoy a comfort level = unlike=20 any

in the world. We all take it for granted that we will never be = invaded by

another country, but few other countries can afford to be so sure = of

themselves. It's not only Americans who can go to bed feeling = safe.

Children everywhere from Israel to England, from Brazil to Japan - = know

that, if their country is attacked, the US will be there to help. On = TV,

the military is often represented by stiff, buttoned-down generals or = the

occasional drill sergeant who is accused of feeling up a female = recruit.

In reality, things are much different. The men and women of the armed = forces

are, in most ways, just like everyone else: they are mechanics, = pilots,

cooks, photographers, engineers, secretaries and X-ray technicians. = They

work from 8 to 5 and then come home to their families.

The one difference comes when the US or any of its allies is = threatened

by a foreign power. In that case, military people pack up and ship = out, off=20 to

fight -- and many times die -- so the rest of the country, = including

teachers, can continue their lives without interruption.

Teachers mold young minds into intelligent, independent people, and = they

should be admired for the job they do; however, I don't know any = teachers

who are required to catch bullets and swallow shrapnel if so ordered = by

the principal.

So, old-fashioned as it may seem, I'm happy to give my taxes to = the

military and tell the tots and teachers to fire up the oven if they = want=20 extra

dough. Make muffins, cookies and candy and be happy you're allowed to = Because,

as the old saying goes, if it wasn't for the US military, we'd all = be

speaking German now."

"It is easy to take liberty for granted, when you have never had it = taken

from you."

Dick Cheney

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C08ED6.D3247020-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 21:10:59 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:10:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dick Cheney In-Reply-To: "Brian McGuire" 's message of Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:18:08 -0000 Message-ID: <5265-3A7DC563-3075@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> What was Dick Cheney saying in the 1960s when he was going through all his deferments? In July of 1963 when i reported in to the 2nd Air Division in Vietnam as the Public Affairs officer for the Air Force, one of the first persons I met was a young 2nd Lt. who had just lost his wife in childbirth and who had to leave his baby with relatives so that he could fulfill his military obligation. That was patriotism with a capital P. It is very easy to "talk the talk" but it takes guts to "walk the walk." Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 21:14:31 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gordon Alton) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:14:31 -0800 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Dick Cheney References: <5265-3A7DC563-3075@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <002301c08eef$7781d820$cb09f4cc@e0y0k4> Hi Hal, Care to elaborate a little more on his deferments? This is the first I have heard of them. Seems like there is always a skeleton in the closet, doesn't it? gordy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Susskind" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Cc: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Dick Cheney > What was Dick Cheney saying in the 1960s when he was going through all > his deferments? In July of 1963 when i reported in to the 2nd Air > Division in Vietnam as the Public Affairs officer for the Air Force, one > of the first persons I met was a young 2nd Lt. who had just lost his > wife in childbirth and who had to leave his baby with relatives so > that he could fulfill his military obligation. That was patriotism with > a capital P. It is very easy to "talk the talk" but it takes guts to > "walk the walk." Hal Susskind > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 21:26:25 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:26:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour In-Reply-To: Bhandsr@aol.com's message of Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:38:14 EST Message-ID: <5267-3A7DC901-2013@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I was one of those fellows that went back for a second tour. There was a night and day difference between the two tours. The first tour it was the fighters that gave you the puckers and the second tour it was the flak. It was black and plentiful. I went to Berlin eight times and none of them could compare with Oschersleben, Merseburg or Oberpfaffenhofen. Would I volunteer again today...not only no but hell no. You do strange things when you are young. Always enjoy reading your messages. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 21:53:30 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:53:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] Order of takeoff? Gas load? In-Reply-To: "Bill Jones" 's message of Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:49:37 -0500 Message-ID: <5264-3A7DCF5A-3772@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> What's your gas load was the question we got asked when we landed at another base in the wee hours of the morning. We were the PFF crew that came over to lead the mission. WE used to tell them "2800 gallons" and they knew we were going on a long mission deep in to Germany. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 22:01:56 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:01:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour In-Reply-To: "Lloyd J H Grant" 's message of Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:57:25 -0500 Message-ID: <5265-3A7DD154-3133@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Lloyd Grant I fit all your categories, second tour, recalled to active duty in 1949, served in Vietnam in 1963 and retired in 1973. Why do you want that information? Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 23:04:47 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:04:47 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #147 - 6 msgs Message-ID: --part1_c4.f62d6c8.27af3a0f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message #2 A lot of people remember the Kiel mission of June 14th, 1943 it was extremely rough, I now, I was there Abbott Smith 427th --part1_c4.f62d6c8.27af3a0f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message #2

A lot of people remember the Kiel mission of June 14th, 1943 it was extremely
rough, I now, I was there

Abbott Smith
427th --part1_c4.f62d6c8.27af3a0f_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Sun Feb 4 23:23:12 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:23:12 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #147 - 6 msgs Message-ID: <33.103fd390.27af3e60@aol.com> I didn't think our Group went to Berlin on February 3, 1944. The first time we bombed Berlin was March 6, 1944. We aborted the mission on March 3 that was to bomb Berlin. Am I wrong in thinking this? Bill Dallas From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Mon Feb 5 08:17:05 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 03:17:05 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour References: <5265-3A7DD154-3133@storefull-247.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <000901c08f4c$087d74e0$e8b34d0c@netzero> Hal, My father was a career officer in the Air Force. I know he served with the 303rd, but he told me he did two tours of combat. If so , the second must not have been with the same group as there is no record. After the war in Europe was over he was transferred to the Phillipines ( that's were I came on board) Later he was in the 303rd, but this time in B-47's. I have no records to go by so I am fishing for information. Incidently, it took one hell of alot of guts to get thru one tour, let alone re-up for another. I salute you. Lloyd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Susskind" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour > Lloyd Grant I fit all > your categories, second tour, recalled to active duty in 1949, served > in Vietnam in 1963 and retired in 1973. Why do you want that > information? Hal Susskind > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Tue Feb 6 17:46:15 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:46:15 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour Message-ID: Here's an interesting twist to this discussion and I heard this first hand from Joe Jameson, a waist Gunner with the 447th at Rattlesden. Joe's tour ended in Sptember of 1944. The Air Corps stated you could go home for 30 days if you reupped for another tour. So Joe and a buddy went back to the States thinking the war would be over by the end of the year and that most of the fighting was over. The Buldge changed all that and he ended up doing another tour in late 44, early 45. There was a bit of psychology associated with that and thought you might be interested. Kevin >From: Bhandsr@aol.com >Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com >To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com >Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour >Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:38:14 EST > >Well, I'll tell ya, pardner, one tour was enough for this person, and my >hat's off forever to the man who tackled a second. That strange rumbling I >felt in my gut around noon today (while in the midst of a garage sale, of >all things!)....was my innards recalling that it was 56 years to the day >since my Last Raid....Berlin....along with Fink's crew as >bombardier....with >over a thousand other aircraft in the skies. Amazing to still be alive and >functioning after that and all that's happened since....thanks to all who >covered my rear. Best wishes and cheers, Bob and Nyela Hand > >_______________________________________________ >303rd-Talk mailing list >303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Feb 7 14:57:11 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:57:11 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour Message-ID: Talk about a dealer's advantage! 35 missions for 30 days leave....really staggering, but as they say, all's fair in love and war (or whatever!) Rumor had it back then that your second tour would be in another theater. Maybe there was some "safety" in returning to familiar ground. Thanks for the story....Cheers, Bob Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Feb 7 17:29:18 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Fory Barton) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:29:18 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Two Missions Message-ID: <004201c0912b$81fdf7a0$469a46c6@fory> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C090F9.3596B6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kuykendall talked his crew into checking out for lead position to only = do 30 instead of 35 missions. We readily agreed and were lucky enough to = complete the 30. I was supposed to go to Guam on B-29's but Truman put a stop to that. My son, who is also a retired Major, showed more guts . He did two tours = in Vietnam flying the "Puff the Magic Dragon" ship. "Buzz" Barton ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C090F9.3596B6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kuykendall talked his crew into = checking out for=20 lead position to only do 30 instead of 35 missions. We readily agreed = and were=20 lucky enough to complete the 30.
I was supposed to go to Guam on B-29's = but=20 Truman put a stop to that.
My son, who is also a retired Major, = showed more=20 guts . He did two tours in Vietnam flying the "Puff the Magic Dragon"=20 ship.      "Buzz" = Barton
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C090F9.3596B6E0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Feb 7 18:35:26 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:35:26 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] New landing gear Message-ID: <001601c09134$bf71b140$50914d0c@netzero> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0910A.D49C7DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone heard from Hal Susskind? How's he doing? ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0910A.D49C7DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone heard from Hal = Susskind?  How's he=20 doing?
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0910A.D49C7DE0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Feb 7 21:07:53 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:07:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] New landing gear plus a new hip. In-Reply-To: "Lloyd J H Grant" 's message of Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:35:26 -0500 Message-ID: <581-3A81B929-167@storefull-244.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Lloyd Thank you very much for inquiring about me. I've been remiss in answering a lot of questons but i hope to catch up on all my mail in the near future. I had a new hip put in on March 2, 2000. Unfortunately it proved to be defective but I only found out about it In December of 2000 when the manufacturer issued a recall for the prosthesis. Now I'm scheduled for another hip replacement on February 21st. It has been a painful year. Thanks for all your well wishes. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Wed Feb 7 21:27:02 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:27:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] After the first tour and how they twisted our arms to In-Reply-To: Bhandsr@aol.com's message of Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:57:11 EST Message-ID: <21604-3A81BDA6-906@storefull-245.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I joined the 303rd inNovember of '43 when the tour was 25. In March of '44 our crew was assigned to the PFF pool with the 305th at Chelveston. We had about 18 missions then. Soon our tour was upped to 30 but we received credit for one mission and the tour was 29 for me. I finished my 29 on the morning of D-Day. I flew an extra mission in the afternoon we landed back at Chelveston and I packed my clothes and trucked over to Molesworth to get my orders to go home whereupon Col. Cole said to me you have to fly 35 missions. To get orders to go home I had to volunteer to come back for another tour. Which I did. I returned in September of "44 to start my second tour. I stayed until the end of the war in May of "45. And accompanied what was left of the 303rd to Casabranca. I was stationed in Dakar, Africa. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 01:46:16 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:46:16 -0000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK Message-ID: <001201c09170$ed88bce0$c05b073e@n0i6c5> My name is Yvonne Barnett from the UK. (Better known to my friends as Moofy). I have been married to my husband Pete for 26 yrs, and we have four grown up children, and one 7 yr old granddaughter. Having taken an interest in the members of 'The Mighty Eighth' in 1994, I have made many wonderful friends of both Bomber and Fighter veterans. In fact it was some of these friends who started me off with a collection of books related to 'The Mighty Eighth'. My library is growing nicely, and when ever I can, I try to help relatives of members of the 8th AF based over here in WW2, to find where their late fathers, grandfathers, uncles, were based, and the aircraft they flew with, names of crew members they flew with etc. A part from doing look up's in my books, I also search the Bomber and Fighter Group websites, so I can point them in the right direction. Hence my frequent visits to the Heavy Bombers Website, and all the different Group websites I can reach from there. I love to read through the message boards, and take an interest in what people post. (and of course help out if I can). Well I think I have chatted on enough, and just want to say 'Hi' to you all. Moofy (Yvonne)UK From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 06:13:44 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:13:44 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK References: <001201c09170$ed88bce0$c05b073e@n0i6c5> Message-ID: <000701c09196$4c547820$e71b4e0c@netzero> Moofy, by birth I am one half Texan and the other half English. I have considerable respect for the men in the RAF who often seem not to get the respect to which they are due. These men had no limit to the number of missions they had to fly. They held the line with tremendous sacrifice and dedication before and after the "Yanks" got there. My dad came early in the war when casualties were at there highest for the American bomber crews, but there was an end for him, if he managed to get through 25 missions, he could go home. The gallant men who crewed the RAF planes were "home". I think we also owe them a debt of gratitude. Thank you for your kind remarks, but please never forget to thank the men and women of the RAF for their sacrifice and courage.Regards, L. Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moofy" To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:46 PM Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK > My name is Yvonne Barnett from the UK. (Better known to my friends as > Moofy). I have been married to my husband Pete for 26 yrs, and we have four > grown up children, and one 7 yr old granddaughter. > Having taken an interest in the members of 'The Mighty Eighth' in 1994, I > have made many wonderful friends of both Bomber and Fighter veterans. In > fact it was some of these friends who started me off with a collection of > books related to 'The Mighty Eighth'. My library is growing nicely, and > when ever I can, I try to help relatives of members of the 8th AF based over > here in WW2, to find where their late fathers, grandfathers, uncles, were > based, and the aircraft they flew with, names of crew members they flew with > etc. > A part from doing look up's in my books, I also search the Bomber and > Fighter Group websites, so I can point them in the right direction. Hence > my frequent visits to the Heavy Bombers Website, and all the different Group > websites I can reach from there. I love to read through the message boards, > and take an interest in what people post. (and of course help out if I > can). > Well I think I have chatted on enough, and just want to say 'Hi' to you all. > Moofy (Yvonne)UK > > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 11:49:01 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Moofy) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:49:01 -0000 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Thank you Lloyd Message-ID: <000901c091c5$2218a840$1eac7ad5@n0i6c5> Thank you Lloyd, for your words of thought on our RAF. I always think that the famous words spoken by Churchill ''Never in the field of Human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few !" says it all, and I am truly aware of the debt of gratitude we owe to all our Servicemen and Women, who gave their sacrifice and courage they showed in those dark years, for us to live in Freedom, also to our Allies who fought at our sides, to rid the world of those who would destroy the freedom we now have. My dad served with the RAF from 1937 until 1946, he was stationed with the 15 SQDN at Cosford, I believe as an Aircraft Mechanic. Dad never spoke much (or I never heard him speak much), of his RAF years. I do know that he was in France for the Dunkirk Landings. Having sent for his Service Records, I was quite disappointed, as they do not give much information. Dad was a member of our British Legion, and when he died his funeral was attended by many of his friends who were veterans of WW2. Lloyd, do you know where your 'English' part of your family originated from over here ? From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 14:12:35 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:12:35 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? Message-ID: <3A826303.29093.6AB1C6@localhost> Just out of curiosity, when does the 303rdBGA membership directory come out? I thought that it would come about the same time as the Feb newsletter, but that came over a week ago, so I was wondering whether anyone has received it yet. I joined about a year ago, so I haven't quite learned the schedule yet, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss the directory. Thanks. Can't wait for the CDROM also. I guess it's not supposed to be shipped for another week or so (according to the announcement on the Guest Comments page), but I'm still watching my mailbox every day, in case it comes out early. ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 15:01:33 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:01:33 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Two Missions Message-ID: <9.10bd996f.27b40ecd@aol.com> Nice to see Roger Kuykendall's name mentioned....barracksmate and every bit a gentleman with a keen sense of humor. (Are you listening from up there, Roger?) Cheers, Bob Hand From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 17:31:22 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:31:22 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Thank you Lloyd References: <000901c091c5$2218a840$1eac7ad5@n0i6c5> Message-ID: <000901c091f4$f8514fa0$57184e0c@netzero> My mother was from Cambridge at the time she met my father, Moofy. Both my parents are deceased, but my mothers' sister still lives in Cambridge. I live in Lakeland, Fl. about 60 miles West of Disney World. My father never spoke much about his war years either. Unfortunately, that leaves alot of blank spots. I am very grateful to the men who put this web site together and to the many members who have been helping to put a picture around a scant few dots. Thank you for your reply. Cheers, Lloyd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moofy" To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: [303rd-Talk] Thank you Lloyd > Thank you Lloyd, for your words of thought on our RAF. I always think > that the famous words spoken by Churchill ''Never in the field of Human > conflict was so much owed by so many to so few !" says it all, and I am > truly aware of the debt of gratitude we owe to all our Servicemen and > Women, who gave their sacrifice and courage they showed in those dark years, > for us to live in Freedom, also to our Allies who fought at our sides, to > rid the world of those who would destroy the freedom we now have. > > My dad served with the RAF from 1937 until 1946, he was stationed with the > 15 SQDN at Cosford, I believe as an Aircraft Mechanic. Dad never spoke much > (or I never heard him speak much), of his RAF years. I do know that he was > in France for the Dunkirk Landings. > > Having sent for his Service Records, I was quite disappointed, as they do > not give much information. Dad was a member of our British Legion, and when > he died his funeral was attended by many of his friends who were veterans of > WW2. > > Lloyd, do you know where your 'English' part of your family originated from > over here ? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 20:53:42 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:53:42 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK Message-ID: <6f.10e64aac.27b46156@aol.com> I agree with you L. Grant. Winston Churchill said it best when he said," Never in the course of human events has so many owed so much to so few as the people of England owe to the Royal Air Force. Perhaps he should have included the people of the world. Best Wishes, Jack Reenter From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 20:55:21 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:55:21 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Thank you Lloyd Message-ID: <25.110c776d.27b461b9@aol.com> bravo to the brits. amen to llod's comments. spec From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 21:34:06 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:34:06 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK Message-ID: good to have interested persons as you who can instill in others an interest in keeping this most worthy assn's. mission actively respected and continuing as relates to our world liberties. spec From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 21:34:34 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:34:34 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Moofy (Yvonne)UK Message-ID: <7e.109b9276.27b46aea@aol.com> amen From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 22:29:36 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Harold Susskind) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:29:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? In-Reply-To: "Bill Jones" 's message of Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <16333-3A831DD0-2565@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I have put out every directory since 1985. The last one I put out was in 1999. Normally we put one out evry two years.. I don't know of any plans to put out an 2001 issue. Hal Susskind From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 22:36:57 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:36:57 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? In-Reply-To: <16333-3A831DD0-2565@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: "Bill Jones" 's message of Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3A82BD19.30845.CA57A2@localhost> > > I have put out every directory since 1985. The last one I put out was in > 1999. Normally we put one out evry two years.. I don't know of any > plans to put out an 2001 issue. Hal Susskind I have referred that question to Ed Miller and Dennis Smith. Neither are on this list. I'll relay their response when I get it. The CD will start shipping about the 15th. It need to be shipped from NY to OK via FedEX, which should happen within a few days. - Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 23:02:32 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Bill Jones) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:02:32 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? In-Reply-To: <16333-3A831DD0-2565@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: "Bill Jones" 's message of Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3A82DF38.5891.24FF678@localhost> > I have put out every directory since 1985. The last one I put out was in > 1999. Normally we put one out evry two years.. I don't know of any > plans to put out an 2001 issue. Hal Susskind I guess I'm confused then. When the letter came last fall asking for membership dues, there was a box to check to pay a bit more to receive the directory, which I did. I thought it said it came out in Feb, but I may have mis-read it. Perhaps not enough people checked the box to make it worthwhile to print one, or perhaps I didn't understand what I was checking, which is likely. At least I know my copy didn't get lost in the mail. Thanks ***************************************************************** *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * * wejones@megalink.net * * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * ***************************************************************** From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 23:07:50 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Gary Moncur) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:07:50 -0700 Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? In-Reply-To: <3A82DF38.5891.24FF678@localhost> References: <16333-3A831DD0-2565@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <3A82C456.6670.E6A1E6@localhost> Bill, We'll get this figured out for you. I'll send this on to Ed and Dennis also. > > I have put out every directory since 1985. The last one I put out was in > > 1999. Normally we put one out evry two years.. I don't know of any > > plans to put out an 2001 issue. Hal Susskind > > I guess I'm confused then. When the letter came last fall asking for membership dues, > there was a box to check to pay a bit more to receive the directory, which I did. I > thought it said it came out in Feb, but I may have mis-read it. Perhaps not enough > people checked the box to make it worthwhile to print one, or perhaps I didn't > understand what I was checking, which is likely. At least I know my copy didn't get > lost in the mail. > Thanks > > > > ***************************************************************** > *Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine * > * wejones@megalink.net * > * Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones * > * WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html * > * TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX * > ***************************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > - Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.B17Thunderbird.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Thu Feb 8 23:20:30 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Duke Drewry) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:20:30 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] When does membership directory come out? Message-ID: I thought the same thing as Bill; seems like it was an extra $10 to go = towards the Directory fund. Duke From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 00:19:44 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:19:44 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Questions Message-ID: <001e01c0922e$055b6300$6d8f4d0c@netzero> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09204.18224F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Given the passage of time and the toll it exacts, I want to commend the = intelligence and commitment of the veterans who respond with acuity, = understanding, and generosity to the questions and inquiries often posed = by younger members of this forum. I will speak for myself for the = understanding of all , and that is that I have difficulty remembering = where I was , what I did, why I did it, and when exactly certain events = took place over the course of my life. (Grin if you want to). The point is , THANK YOU!, gentlemen. Thank you. Grant. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09204.18224F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Given the passage of time and the toll = it exacts, I=20 want to commend the intelligence and commitment of the veterans who = respond with=20 acuity, understanding, and generosity to the questions and inquiries = often posed=20 by younger members of this forum.  I will speak for myself for the=20 understanding of all , and that is that I have difficulty remembering = where I=20 was , what I did, why I did it, and when exactly certain events took = place over=20 the course of my life. (Grin if you want to).
The point is , THANK YOU!, = gentlemen.  Thank=20 you.  Grant.
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C09204.18224F00-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 02:13:27 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Dyle Davidson) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [303rd-Talk] A True Story---I like it Message-ID: <1783-3A835247-893@storefull-268.iap.bryant.webtv.net> --WebTV-Mail-22660-482 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are a short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a PanAm 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747 (call sign "Speedbird 206") after landing: Speedbird 206: "Top of the morning Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of the active runway." Ground: "Guten morgen! You will taxi to your gate!" The big British Airways 747 pulled onto the main taxi way and slowed to a stop. Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?" Speedbird 206: "Stand by a moment ground, I'm looking up our gate location now." Ground: "Speedbird 206, have you never flown to Frankfurt before?!?" Speedbird 206 (cooly): "Yes, I have, in 1944. In another type of Boeing, but I didn't stop." As told by Capt. Biggles----------DD --WebTV-Mail-22660-482 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit GOD BLESS AMERICA ! --WebTV-Mail-22660-482-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 03:42:24 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:42:24 EST Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re:msg # 6 from LLoyd Grant Feb.8th 303rd talk Message-ID: --part1_da.217f0c8.27b4c120_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a note..I had done 38 combat missions from July of 43 to March of 44, before they credited me with the 25 combat missions before you would be sent home. I went home and then got sent back to the 303rd BG. I guess they wanted some of us to go back and do it right the second time?, who knows. A frequent problem I had was that on the 25 club page and other documents they were always listing my name as William?. It's Willard... too bad they didn't have spell check back in those days, though you always had some that just didn't pay attention. Willard (Bill) H. Bergeron Lt.Col. USAF Ret. --part1_da.217f0c8.27b4c120_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a note..I had done 38 combat missions from July of 43 to March of 44,
before they credited me with the 25 combat missions before you would be sent
home. I went home and then got sent back to the 303rd BG. I guess they wanted
some of us to go back and do it right the second time?, who knows. A frequent
problem I had was that on the 25 club page and other documents they were
always listing my name as William?. It's Willard... too bad they didn't have
spell check back in those days, though you always had some that just didn't
pay attention.
Willard (Bill) H. Bergeron
Lt.Col. USAF Ret. --part1_da.217f0c8.27b4c120_boundary-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 04:51:34 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:51:34 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re:msg # 6 from LLoyd Grant Feb.8th 303rd talk References: Message-ID: <000901c09253$fc1131a0$fa8f4d0c@netzero> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0922A.1155EEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Col. Bergeron, Thank you for your reply. It is quite obvious that = men with combat experience could help save lives and at the same time = bring about more effective results. My question with regard to 2nd = tours is at first a tribute to the courage and dedication of men such as = yourself, and second to try to retrace the career of my father who I = believe also flew a 2nd tour and ultimately made a career of the Air = Force. My dad finished his first tour of 25 missions in May of 1943. = In 1951 he was flying in B-47s again with the 303rd BG. The years in = between are the ones I am trying to fill in. The part about Casablanca = is just pure curiosity. It seems like a long way out of the way to = decommission a group, especially given the prevailing sentiment with = respect to our Russian allies at the time. No one has replied to this = aspect of my question. Perhaps it is out of bounds( inwhich case I will = not pursue it), or , it is just unworthy of comment. I sincerely = appreciate your reply and hope you will accept my best wishes. LLoyd = Grant. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Shaddoe2@aol.com=20 To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re:msg # 6 from LLoyd Grant Feb.8th 303rd talk Just a note..I had done 38 combat missions from July of 43 to March of = 44,=20 before they credited me with the 25 combat missions before you would = be sent=20 home. I went home and then got sent back to the 303rd BG. I guess they = wanted=20 some of us to go back and do it right the second time?, who knows. A = frequent=20 problem I had was that on the 25 club page and other documents they = were=20 always listing my name as William?. It's Willard... too bad they = didn't have=20 spell check back in those days, though you always had some that just = didn't=20 pay attention.=20 Willard (Bill) H. Bergeron=20 Lt.Col. USAF Ret.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0922A.1155EEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Col. Bergeron, Thank you for your = reply. =20 It is quite obvious that men with combat experience could help save = lives and at=20 the same time bring about more effective results.  My = question  with=20 regard to 2nd tours is at first a tribute to the courage and dedication = of men=20 such as yourself,  and second to try to retrace the career of my = father who=20 I believe also flew a 2nd tour and ultimately made a career of the Air=20 Force.  My dad finished his first tour of 25 missions in May of = 1943. =20 In 1951 he was flying in B-47s again with the 303rd BG. The years in = between are=20 the ones I am trying to fill in.  The part about Casablanca is just = pure=20 curiosity.  It seems like a long way out of the way to decommission = a=20 group, especially given the prevailing sentiment with respect to our = Russian=20 allies at the time.  No one has replied to this aspect of my=20 question.  Perhaps it is out of bounds( inwhich case I will not = pursue it),=20 or , it is just unworthy of comment.  I sincerely appreciate your = reply and=20 hope you will accept my best wishes.  LLoyd Grant.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Shaddoe2@aol.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 08, = 2001 10:42=20 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re:msg # = 6 from=20 LLoyd Grant Feb.8th 303rd talk

Just a = note..I had done=20 38 combat missions from July of 43 to March of 44,
before they = credited me=20 with the 25 combat missions before you would be sent
home. I went = home and=20 then got sent back to the 303rd BG. I guess they wanted
some of us = to go=20 back and do it right the second time?, who knows. A frequent =
problem I had=20 was that on the 25 club page and other documents they were
always = listing=20 my name as William?. It's Willard... too bad they didn't have =
spell check=20 back in those days, though you always had some that just didn't =
pay=20 attention.
Willard (Bill) H. Bergeron
Lt.Col. USAF Ret. = ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0922A.1155EEE0-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 04:53:38 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Lloyd J H Grant) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:53:38 -0500 Subject: [303rd-Talk] A True Story---I like it References: <1783-3A835247-893@storefull-268.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <001601c09254$4712daa0$fa8f4d0c@netzero> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0922A.5B41E220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thumbs up, Dyle, and Roger that. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dyle Davidson=20 To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: [303rd-Talk] A True Story---I like it The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are a short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a PanAm 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747 (call sign "Speedbird 206") after landing: Speedbird 206: "Top of the morning Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of = the active runway." Ground: "Guten morgen! You will taxi to your gate!" The big British Airways 747 pulled onto the main taxi way and slowed = to a stop. Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?" Speedbird 206: "Stand by a moment ground, I'm looking up our gate location now." Ground: "Speedbird 206, have you never flown to Frankfurt before?!?" Speedbird 206 (cooly): "Yes, I have, in 1944. In another type of = Boeing, but I didn't stop." As told by Capt. Biggles----------DD -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- GOD BLESS AMERICA !=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0922A.5B41E220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thumbs up, Dyle, and Roger = that.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dyle = Davidson=20
Sent: Thursday, February 08, = 2001 9:13=20 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] A True = Story---I=20 like it


The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are = a=20 short-tempered
lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate = parking=20 location but
how to get there without any assistance from them. So = it was=20 with some
amusement that we (a PanAm 747) listened to the following = exchange
between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747 = (call=20 sign
"Speedbird 206") after landing:
Speedbird 206: "Top of the = morning=20 Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of the
active runway."
Ground: = "Guten=20 morgen! You will taxi to your gate!"
The big British Airways 747 = pulled=20 onto the main taxi way and slowed to
a stop.
Ground: "Speedbird, = do you=20 not know where you are going?"
Speedbird 206: "Stand by a moment = ground,=20 I'm looking up our gate
location now."
Ground: "Speedbird 206, = have you=20 never flown to Frankfurt before?!?"
Speedbird 206 (cooly): "Yes, I = have, in=20 1944. In another type of Boeing,
but I didn't stop."

As told = by=20 Capt. Biggles----------DD

GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0922A.5B41E220-- From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 14:50:19 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Kevin Pearson) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:50:19 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: The Fox Message-ID: Do any of you veterans have any stories about you visits to The Fox pub just south of Molesworth? I was there a couple of years ago and it was like stepping back in time. The tough urinals looked like they had been left over from the war, and the lemonade shanties and steak and kidney pie wasn't too bad either. Kevin _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com Fri Feb 9 17:15:57 2001 From: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com (Maurice Paulk) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:15:57 -0600 Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: THE ENGLISH PEOPLE Message-ID: <002a01c092bb$f8a55ba0$25bb9ace@mjpmtman> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C09289.ACC461E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a long-winded one --thought some of you guys might get a charge = out of Moofy's answer.-- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Moofy=20 To: Maurice Paulk=20 Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: THE ENGLISH PEOPLE Dear Maurice, Thank you so much for sharing with me some of your memories of your = friend's in Dudley. Sounds like they looked after you 'good and = proper' !! Must say it was with a sigh of relief when you mentioned = Harold's sisters 'feather bed, that you went on to assure me 'Harold's = sister was not in it' !! . Funny thing is Maurice, although I was born in 1941, as a child I still = remember my mum, warming my bed with a heated brick when I was small. = (takes along time for things to change in dear ol England !). Also, I = seem to remember green & black tea. =20 They obviously enjoyed your friendship too, and probably appreciated how = far you would travel to spend time with them. Wonder how many folk can boast of living in a 'cop shop', and being = free to come and go of their own free will !! and be given rides in a = Black Mariah.......Still, I am sure they all appreciated that you were = far from your home Maurice, and you were over here with your fellow = countrymen, to help rid the world of that tyrant, who had been = threatening the lives and freedom of the English and many other = countries for far too long. =20 Funny, but in 1955/56 my mum and dad befriended a young GI, who was = based at Burtonwood. His name was Don Lee Carroll and he came from = Liberal, Kansas. Like you, Don would visit our family every few weeks. = Sometimes Don would fetch his buddy a young GI named John. My mum would = always make them 'Chip Butties', and both Don and John became 'addicted = to them'.=20 =20 Don used to fetch cigarettes for my mum and dad, I think they were = called 'Lucky Strike' ? Another thing we were never to forget Don = for, was the Christmas Eve, he called in to wish my family a 'Happy = Christmas'. My dad was working nights at the time, and Don gave my mum = a bottle of 'Sloanes Gin'. After Don left to 'hit the town', my mum and our elderly neighbour Mrs. = Birch, sat and drank this bottle of 'Sloanes Gin' between them. At the = best of time, my mum and Mrs. Birch never drank much alcohol, so you = can imagine the 'hang over' they both had the following morning !! LOL =20 I well remember the next time Don appeared, and heard how my mum and our = neighbour had got 'stoned' on the Sloanes Gin, Don laughed so much, that = my mum chased him round the house with a broomstick !! When the time = came for Don to return home to the States, our family were devastated, = as it was like losing one of our family. =20 To be honest Maurice, I think on the whole, the American and English = people, especially during the war years, made some lasting friendships, = and I really do enjoy hearing about them. =20 Once again, thank you for sharing. Warmest Regards to you, Moofy (Yvonne)UK =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Maurice Paulk=20 To: moofy@talk21.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:02 PM Subject: THE ENGLISH PEOPLE The English people were very good to this Yank while spending 33 = months on your island home. While on a pass in Dudley, Worcestershire, a = friend and I were in a coffee shop [Hot milk and chicory--it was good] = not as good as "Ma" Cissy Parkes [2 Blowers Green Crescent] tea blend. = -- 1 lb green to 2 lb black. She made here tea strong and I still have a = mug almost every night -- I use Darjeeling or Earl Grey. At the coffee = shop I meet Harold her son.[along with about 5 girls] I slept in = Harold's sister's feather bed, [[BY THE WAY -she wasn't in it!!!] had = breakfast in bed every Sunday and during the winter a hot brick or a = crockery foot warmer at the foot of the bed when I came in about 11pm = --The door was always unlocked for me. I tried to explain that I was fed = good on base - but I know that I have eaten the last egg, the last glass = of milk or piece of "very dear" meat. Although I was no "kid" [few = months over 21 when I enlisted in April of '42. --NOW you know my age.] = That was my home away from home every two weeks [a fortnight that is] . I was a Sgt with the 444th Sub-Depot in the A/C Supply with the 303rd = at Molesworth. I took a bus from Northampton through Coventry to = Birmingham - the Tipton Bus #25 to Dudley or sometimes a train from = Northhampton. This explains my Friday night 11-12 PM arrival. For the = first 2 months or so I spent my nights sleeping in the womens section = [They said it was cleaner and I wouldn't be disturbed] of the local = Constubulary. [ cop shop] Many is the night that one of the Bobbies = shared his lunch with me They always brought an extra mattress for me = and one night I took a ride in the Black Mariah [ma-rye-a- I called it = by the American name of 'Paddy wagon'] The chief ask me if I had sent = any pictures home - my answere being no ,he immediately called his = photographer [midnight by goodness!!!] and took some pictures. When they = were developed in 2 weeks I sent them home with a request to send a = carton of KOOL cigarettes - that is all he would take for pay. This is a long winded epistle and once again I have run off at the = finger tips. The moral of this letter is-- you folks will always be remembered by = me. [[[hope there are not too many mistakes - This "infernal machine" = doesn't spell worth a hoot.]]] My town is 15 miles west of Grand Island and 127 miles east of North = Platte in the lowest bend of the Platte River - born and raised here. THE MOUNTAIN MAN a. k. a. Maurice J. Paulk 205 W 12th St Wood River, NE -68883-9164 -----a "city" of about 1200=20 308-583-2583 EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE ME !! Some when I arrive - MOST when I leave ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C09289.ACC461E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a long-winded one --thought = some of you=20 guys might get a charge out of Moofy's answer.--
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Moofy =
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: THE ENGLISH PEOPLE

Dear Maurice,
Thank you so much for sharing with me = some of your=20 memories of your friend's  in Dudley.    Sounds like = they=20 looked after you 'good and proper' !!   Must say it was with a = sigh of=20 relief when you mentioned Harold's sisters 'feather bed, that you went = on to=20 assure me 'Harold's sister was not in it' !!  <big grin=20 !>.
Funny thing is Maurice, although I was = born in=20 1941, as a child I still remember my mum, warming my bed with a heated = brick=20 when I was small.  (takes along time for things to change in dear = ol=20 England !).  Also, I seem to remember green & black = tea.
 
They obviously enjoyed your friendship = too, and=20 probably appreciated how far you would travel to spend time with=20 them.
Wonder how many folk  can boast of = living in a=20 'cop shop', and being free to come and go of their own free = will !! =20 and be given rides in a Black Mariah.......Still, I am sure they all = appreciated=20 that you were far from your home Maurice, and you were over  here = with your=20 fellow countrymen,  to help rid  the world of that = tyrant, who=20 had been threatening the lives and freedom of the English and many = other=20 countries for far too long.
 
Funny, but in 1955/56 my mum and dad = befriended a=20 young GI, who was based at Burtonwood.  His name was Don Lee = Carroll and he=20 came from Liberal, Kansas.  Like you, Don would visit our family = every few=20 weeks.  Sometimes Don would fetch his buddy a young GI named = John.  My=20 mum would always  make them 'Chip Butties', and both Don and John = became=20 'addicted to them'. 
 
Don used to fetch cigarettes for my mum = and dad, I=20 think they were called 'Lucky Strike' ?   Another thing we = were never=20 to forget  Don for, was the Christmas Eve, he called in to wish my = family a=20 'Happy Christmas'.  My dad was working nights at the time, and Don = gave my=20 mum a bottle of 'Sloanes Gin'.
After Don left to 'hit the town', my = mum and our=20 elderly neighbour Mrs. Birch, sat and drank this bottle of 'Sloanes Gin' = between=20 them.  At the best of time, my mum and Mrs. Birch  never drank = much=20 alcohol,  so you can imagine the 'hang over' they both had the = following=20 morning !! LOL
 
I well remember the next time Don = appeared, and=20 heard how my mum and our neighbour had got 'stoned' on the Sloanes Gin, = Don=20 laughed so much, that my mum chased him round the house with a = broomstick=20 !!  When the time came for Don to return home to the States, our = family=20 were devastated, as it was like losing one of our family.
 
To be honest Maurice, I think on the = whole, the=20 American and English people, especially during the war years, made some = lasting=20 friendships, and I really do enjoy hearing about them.
 
Once again, thank you for = sharing.
Warmest Regards to you,
Moofy (Yvonne)UK
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----