Im Bill Hoyt, my father was Maj. Otis Allen Hoyt, tho at this =
particular=20
point in time he was a Lt. He was a navigator with the=20
360th.
Anybody having any info at all it would sure be welcome here. =
Would anybody know how to contact Capt Jacob W =
Fredericks, who=20
was a pilot with the 360th BS or any of his family? Email or snail mail. =
I would=20
be very thankful.
Thanks Bill Hoyt son of Lt Otis A Hoyt, nav on Fredericks =
crew.
From: Mlzsilverfox@aol.com
Full-name: Mlzsilverfox
Message-ID: <6c.3aa98b1.270fc357@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:07:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list
To: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 118
My name is Mike Zarelli----303rdBGA member.
Flew 30 missions as a Navigator/ Gee-H operator with the 358th.
Originally on the Bernard Vermeer crew.
Hope to hear from you
.
--part1_db.a8590b4.270fc6f3_boundary--
From IBSPEC@aol.com Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:13:28 EDT
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:13:28 EDT
From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Pictures of bomb damage after VE day
dj, that is really great fellowship to assist with these older photos.
cheers. ibspec@aol.com
From PX303BG@aol.com Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:52:21 EDT
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:52:21 EDT
From: PX303BG@aol.com PX303BG@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introduction & Question about A-2 jacket artwork
Hi,
I'm Vicki Sykes. My Great-Uncle David Miller was a tailgunner with the 358th.
He flew with Bill Monahan's crew from July 4 to August 31, 1943 when they
were shot down on their 13th mission over France. They flew 10 missions on
"Hells Angels" . They were on "Augerhead" the day they were shot down. (Does
anyone know anything about "Augerhead"?)
My husband Charlie and I are associate family members and we also run your PX.
We just found a couple of A-2 jackets and want to paint the 358th squadron
logo on them. My question is this: What kind of paint was used on the
jackets? I know some of you are still wearing your original jacket and the
paint still looks good.
Thanks!
Vicki
From Bhandsr@aol.com Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:55:57 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:55:57 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list
Welcome to the 303rd hotline, where old memories come alive. For more of
the same, try the book "Last Raid" by a 360th bombardier....crammed full of
stories, photos, cartoons, etc., about life at Molesworth. See Web Address
Below. Cheers, Bob Hand
Bob Hand, (Capt.USAF/Ret.)
'LAST RAID"
HAND ENTERPRISES
P. O. Box 740812
Boynton Beach, FL 33474-0812
Web: http://aerodreams.anthill.com/
From Bhandsr@aol.com Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:03:09 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:03:09 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introduction & Question about A-2 jacket artwork
Hi Vickie and Charlie: I painted about a dozen A-2s while at Molesworth and
I used standaard oil colors in tubes which I bought in London. They required
a day or two to really dry, but my A2 is intact and still hanging in there,
except for the white, which mostly flaked off. I've been thinking about
refurbishing the white (inside the triangle) but then again want to preserve
the jacket in it's "original" condition. We'll see. Note for Charlie...any
decision about quantity on the license plates? Hope you two are well and
many thanks for the great job you're doing! Cheers, Bob and Nyela Hand
Bob Hand, (Capt.USAF/Ret.)
'LAST RAID"
HAND ENTERPRISES
P. O. Box 740812
Boynton Beach, FL 33474-0812
Web: http://aerodreams.anthill.com/
From ginpat@pulsenet.com Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:49:36 -0400
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:49:36 -0400
From: George Schweinebraten ginpat@pulsenet.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Leslie Schweinebraten
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My brother,Leslie Schweinebraten was with the 358th at Molesworth, =
England from Dec. l943 until he was kia on May 24, l944. He flew with =
Capt. Jim Taylor's crew. Capt. J. Worthley was the pilot of the crew on =
May 24, l944. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who knew him at =
Molesworth. George Schweinebraten
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My brother,Leslie Schweinebraten was =
with the=20
358th at Molesworth, England from Dec. l943 until he was kia on May 24,=20
l944. He flew with Capt. Jim Taylor's crew. Capt. J. =
Worthley was=20
the pilot of the crew on May 24, l944. Would appreciate hearing =
from=20
anyone who knew him at Molesworth. George=20
Schweinebraten
------=_NextPart_000_006F_01C0322A.0D8662A0--
From glm@xmission.com Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:14:22 -0700
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:14:22 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Leslie Schweinebraten
> My brother,Leslie Schweinebraten was with the 358th at Molesworth,
> England from Dec. l943 until he was kia on May 24, l944. He flew with
> Capt. Jim Taylor's crew. Capt. J. Worthley was the pilot of the crew
> on May 24, l944. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who knew him at
> Molesworth. George Schweinebraten
>
George,
Jim Taylor and Hobart Steely are Association members. I spoke
with both in San Diego at our reunion. I don't believe either is
online.
Here is some address info. Good luck!
Jim Taylor
421 Yerba Buena Ave
Los Altos, CA 94022
650-948-6596
Hobart Steely
18315 Aceituno St
San Diego, CA 92128
619-451-6829
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From glm@xmission.com Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:19:55 -0700
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:19:55 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] test - please ignore
test
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From gordy@saltspring.com Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:41:54 -0700
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:41:54 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C032FA.867FA920
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shawn,
I checked a few B17 books I have, and find no record of a plane of that =
name. Can you nail down the dates a little better, and the squadron # ?
I checked some other info, though, and if it is a Square J, then he was =
in the 2nd Air Division, 453rd Bomb Group, and flew in a B-24, not a =
B-17.=20
See the info below:
453 BG
732 E3
733 F8 +
734 E8 -
735 H6 -
J
B-24
=20
I copied this line from the "East Anglia, the Air War", site.
Check the photos you have, and see if you can glean a little more info? =
If this is true, check out http://www.453rd.com/ for this bomb group.
You can also find more info at the Heavy Bombers site, =
http://www.heavybombers.com/453rdbg.html
and one other site, for posting names of missing members of the 453rd, =
http://www.b24.mach3ww.com/wwwboard/messages/12739.html=20
Hope this helps you out, my friend. Don't give up easy, the answers are =
there. Is just takes a bit of time. You may be surprised at some of the =
nice people you'll meet along the way.
Good luck.
Gordy Alton, 'tailgunnerson'
********************************
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Shawn Wilson=20
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 6:50 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
Hello,
My name is Shawn Wilson, and I am searching for any and all =
information I can find concerning my grandfather Charles Adam Wilson of =
Pa. I know very little about his time in the war, but he told me, I =
have not ever forgotten.
I know that he was the co-pilot, and the name of his B-17 was "Night =
and Day", and I know the most important thing (I think) is that the =
symbol on his tail wing was a "square J". That is how he described it. =
I now know that this meant there was a large colored-in square with a =
"J" in it. I know he was injured during his service, and was sent home. =
I also know he is the receipient of the Purple Heart (two times I =
believe).
I have always been interested in what he did in the war, and now I =
reqret not asking more when I had the opportunity. Charles Adam Wilson =
died the winter of 1997 after battling with Alzhimer's desease for three =
years, and I am afraid if I don't find out everything I can about his =
heroic service, it will be forgotten with nothing to pass on to future =
generations of my family. When he returned from the war, his "foot =
locker" was misplaced or stolen leaving nothing except for a few uniform =
items and an amazing foto album. =20
I am the third generation to proudly serve our country with my father =
still serving as well. If there is ANYONE out there that can help me =
and my father find ANYTHING, or help guide us in the right direction, =
please help. Thank you for your time.
Very Respectfully,
Shawn C. Wilson
LT, USN
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C032FA.867FA920
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shawn,
I checked a few B17 books I have, and =
find no=20
record of a plane of that name. Can you nail down the dates a little =
better, and=20
the squadron # ?
I checked some other info, though, and =
if it is a=20
Square J, then he was in the 2nd Air Division, 453rd Bomb Group, and =
flew in a=20
B-24, not a B-17.
See the info below:
|
453 =
BG |
732 E3 |
733 F8 + |
734 E8 - |
735 H6 - |
J |
B-24 |
I copied this line from the "East =
Anglia, the Air=20
War", site.
Check the photos you have, and see if =
you can glean=20
a little more info? If this is true, check out http://www.453rd.com/ for this =
bomb=20
group.
You can also find more info at the =
Heavy Bombers=20
site, http://www.heavybombers=
.com/453rdbg.html
and one other site, for posting names=20
of missing members of the 453rd, http://w=
ww.b24.mach3ww.com/wwwboard/messages/12739.html=20
Hope this helps you out, my friend. =
Don't give up=20
easy, the answers are there. Is just takes a bit of time. You may be =
surprised=20
at some of the nice people you'll meet along the way.
Good luck.
Gordy Alton, =
'tailgunnerson'
********************************
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Shawn=20
Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 =
6:50=20
PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching =
for=20
answers
Hello,
My name is Shawn Wilson, and I am =
searching for=20
any and all information I can find concerning my grandfather Charles =
Adam=20
Wilson of Pa. I know very little about his time in the war, but =
he told=20
me, I have not ever forgotten.
I know that he was the co-pilot, and =
the name of=20
his B-17 was "Night and Day", and I know the most important thing (I =
think) is=20
that the symbol on his tail wing was a "square J". That is how =
he=20
described it. I now know that this meant there was a large =
colored-in=20
square with a "J" in it. I know he was injured during his =
service, and=20
was sent home. I also know he is the receipient of the Purple =
Heart (two=20
times I believe).
I have always been interested in what =
he did in=20
the war, and now I reqret not asking more when I had the =
opportunity. =20
Charles Adam Wilson died the winter of 1997 after battling with=20
Alzhimer's desease for three years, and I am afraid if I don't find =
out=20
everything I can about his heroic service, it will be forgotten with =
nothing=20
to pass on to future generations of my family. When he returned from =
the war,=20
his "foot locker" was misplaced or stolen leaving nothing except for a =
few=20
uniform items and an amazing foto album.
I am the third generation to proudly =
serve our=20
country with my father still serving as well. If there =
is ANYONE=20
out there that can help me and my father find ANYTHING, or help guide =
us in=20
the right direction, please help. Thank you for your =
time.
Very Respectfully,
Shawn C. Wilson
LT, =
USN
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C032FA.867FA920--
From glm@xmission.com Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:52:33 -0700
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:52:33 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
I believe the 390th BG(H) was a Square "J". Take a look here:
http://www.390th.org/
> I checked a few B17 books I have, and find no record of a plane of
> that name. Can you nail down the dates a little better, and the
> squadron # ? I checked some other info, though, and if it is a Square
> J, then he was in the 2nd Air Division, 453rd Bomb Group, and flew in
> a B-24, not a B-17. See the info below
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From gordy@saltspring.com Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:00:36 -0700
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:00:36 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
Jeez, Gary, you are right. Third Division. My booboo.
Here is the next group down on that same page :
390 BG, 568 BI, 569 CC, 570 DI, 571 FC square J, B-17
I am sorry, Shawn for giving you a bum steer to start with. The way
that page reads, I can see how I did the misread.
http://www.army.mod.uk/army/press/museums/details/m126bomb.htm
http://www.framlingham.com/390th.htm
http://www.heavybombers.com/390thbg.html
http://wae.com/messages/msgs4747.html
Hope these sites will make up for the first ones I gave you.
Thanks for the correction, Gary.
Gordy.
**************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Moncur"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
> I believe the 390th BG(H) was a Square "J". Take a look here:
> http://www.390th.org/
>
> > I checked a few B17 books I have, and find no record of a plane of
> > that name. Can you nail down the dates a little better, and the
> > squadron # ? I checked some other info, though, and if it is a
Square
> > J, then he was in the 2nd Air Division, 453rd Bomb Group, and flew
in
> > a B-24, not a B-17. See the info below
>
>
> - Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
> http://www.303rdBGA.com
> http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From thollritt@yahoo.com Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE:Searching for answers
Shawn and all,
I checked all my references and here is what I
found.
There was no 8th AAF aircraft named "Night and Day".
Of course there was a...
Night Mare
Night Raider
Night Shade
Night-Life-Nellie (Nellie must have lived near the
392nd Bomb Group:)
Nightjar-N-Nan
Nightmare
I did find a B17G named "Day and Night" that
operated with the 401st BG. No serial number listed
but that should be 1944 or 45. That Square J sounds
like a B-24 to me.
Good luck!
Todd-
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:55:37 -0500
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:55:37 -0500
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
Square J's were the 390th Bombardment Group (Heavy) at Parnham
(Framlingham). Been there and have the painting "Square Js at Framlingham"
by M. Corning. The 390th flew B-17s. They may have transitioned into 17s
from 24s, but not sure about this. Kevin Pearson.
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Gary Moncur
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:12 AM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
I believe the 390th BG(H) was a Square "J". Take a look here:
http://www.390th.org/
> I checked a few B17 books I have, and find no record of a plane of
> that name. Can you nail down the dates a little better, and the
> squadron # ? I checked some other info, though, and if it is a Square
> J, then he was in the 2nd Air Division, 453rd Bomb Group, and flew in
> a B-24, not a B-17. See the info below
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From Wmjdallas@aol.com Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:29:58 EDT
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:29:58 EDT
From: Wmjdallas@aol.com Wmjdallas@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #59 - 2 msgs
I think it's amazing that a person can get so much help from so many people
when they ask. I haven't asked for any information yet but I'm sure I'll get
several responses. So, thanks in advance to all of you,
Bill Dallas
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:42:47 -0500
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:42:47 -0500
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #59 - 2 msgs
People who are interested in the 8th AF are a unique breed and will "walk on
water" to help those searching for information.
Kevin Pearson, Secretary
Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing
Eighth Air Force Historical Society
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Wmjdallas@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:38 AM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #59 - 2 msgs
I think it's amazing that a person can get so much help from so many people
when they ask. I haven't asked for any information yet but I'm sure I'll get
several responses. So, thanks in advance to all of you,
Bill Dallas
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From mail148779@pop.net Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:31:18 -0400
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:31:18 -0400
From: Matt Petersen mail148779@pop.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C03459.15CF1340
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shawn,
You may wish to begin with military archives. As a family member and =
serviceman you should have reasonably good access to your grandfathers =
records. Although a fire destroyed a large portion of the records, there =
is always hope.
Matt Petersen
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Shawn Wilson=20
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:50 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching for answers
Hello,
My name is Shawn Wilson, and I am searching for any and all =
information I can find concerning my grandfather Charles Adam Wilson of =
Pa. I know very little about his time in the war, but he told me, I =
have not ever forgotten.
I know that he was the co-pilot, and the name of his B-17 was "Night =
and Day", and I know the most important thing (I think) is that the =
symbol on his tail wing was a "square J". That is how he described it. =
I now know that this meant there was a large colored-in square with a =
"J" in it. I know he was injured during his service, and was sent home. =
I also know he is the receipient of the Purple Heart (two times I =
believe).
I have always been interested in what he did in the war, and now I =
reqret not asking more when I had the opportunity. Charles Adam Wilson =
died the winter of 1997 after battling with Alzhimer's desease for three =
years, and I am afraid if I don't find out everything I can about his =
heroic service, it will be forgotten with nothing to pass on to future =
generations of my family. When he returned from the war, his "foot =
locker" was misplaced or stolen leaving nothing except for a few uniform =
items and an amazing foto album. =20
I am the third generation to proudly serve our country with my father =
still serving as well. If there is ANYONE out there that can help me =
and my father find ANYTHING, or help guide us in the right direction, =
please help. Thank you for your time.
Very Respectfully,
Shawn C. Wilson
LT, USN
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C03459.15CF1340
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shawn,
You may wish to begin with =
military=20
archives. As a family member and serviceman you should have reasonably =
good=20
access to your grandfathers records. Although a fire destroyed a large =
portion=20
of the records, there is always hope.
Matt Petersen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Shawn=20
Wilson
To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 =
9:50=20
PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] searching =
for=20
answers
Hello,
My name is Shawn Wilson, and I am =
searching for=20
any and all information I can find concerning my grandfather Charles =
Adam=20
Wilson of Pa. I know very little about his time in the war, but =
he told=20
me, I have not ever forgotten.
I know that he was the co-pilot, and =
the name of=20
his B-17 was "Night and Day", and I know the most important thing (I =
think) is=20
that the symbol on his tail wing was a "square J". That is how =
he=20
described it. I now know that this meant there was a large =
colored-in=20
square with a "J" in it. I know he was injured during his =
service, and=20
was sent home. I also know he is the receipient of the Purple =
Heart (two=20
times I believe).
I have always been interested in what =
he did in=20
the war, and now I reqret not asking more when I had the =
opportunity. =20
Charles Adam Wilson died the winter of 1997 after battling with=20
Alzhimer's desease for three years, and I am afraid if I don't find =
out=20
everything I can about his heroic service, it will be forgotten with =
nothing=20
to pass on to future generations of my family. When he returned from =
the war,=20
his "foot locker" was misplaced or stolen leaving nothing except for a =
few=20
uniform items and an amazing foto album.
I am the third generation to proudly =
serve our=20
country with my father still serving as well. If there =
is ANYONE=20
out there that can help me and my father find ANYTHING, or help guide =
us in=20
the right direction, please help. Thank you for your =
time.
Very Respectfully,
Shawn C. Wilson
LT, =
USN
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C03459.15CF1340--
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:21:21 -0500
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:21:21 -0500
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introduction & Question about A-2 jacket artwork
Welcome Vicki: I am not a vet but have done quite a bit of research on
"flying leather." I have two A-2s and one B-3 painted - The Miss Behaven,
The Careful Virgin, and Wound Twip Wabbit - all completed with 100%
historical accuracy. If this is what you wish to acheive, then an oil based
paint would work, but laquer is preferable, thined with 100LL aviation fuel,
is the way to go. Laquer will only last a few years with heavy use, more
with limited use. Oil based paints will last longer, but are not
historically accurate because today's oil based paints have been refined and
have more chemical additives than those used during the war. If you want the
most long lasting paint job available, use acrylic based paints, but these
types of paints had not even been invented during the war.
Most of today's A-2s have a protective chemical barrier between the leather
(goatshin, horsehide, etc.) and the elements. This must be removed before
painting, otherwise the paint will not adhere to the leather and will "run".
Go to any Tandy Leather Shop and they can supply you with the proper
chemicals to remove this barrier.
Keep red off the jackets unless you find a wartime photo that has ed on the
jacket. Red paint was in very short supply during the war. The red I used
on my jacket Miss Behaven was computer matched from a picture in a book, and
the red pigment had to be ordered from Italy - cost $85 an ounce!!
If you have any other questions, please feel free to write.
Kevin M. Pearson
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of PX303BG@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:07 AM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introduction & Question about A-2 jacket artwork
Hi,
I'm Vicki Sykes. My Great-Uncle David Miller was a tailgunner with the
358th.
He flew with Bill Monahan's crew from July 4 to August 31, 1943 when they
were shot down on their 13th mission over France. They flew 10 missions on
"Hells Angels" . They were on "Augerhead" the day they were shot down.
(Does
anyone know anything about "Augerhead"?)
My husband Charlie and I are associate family members and we also run your
PX.
We just found a couple of A-2 jackets and want to paint the 358th squadron
logo on them. My question is this: What kind of paint was used on the
jackets? I know some of you are still wearing your original jacket and the
paint still looks good.
Thanks!
Vicki
_______________________________________________
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303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From able2@kwom.com Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:54:11 +0000
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:54:11 +0000
From: Roger able2@kwom.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intro
Although I did not serve in WW II, I have a great interest in that era,
particularly that of the 8th AAF and I suppose I am partial to the
Forts. I have done a great deal of research on the 8th AAF over many
years - mostly books. Now that there is such a wealth of 'accurate' and
factual information availableon the internet, my interests have been
spurned.
I am 56 years old and served in Vietnam in the early stages (1964-65) in
Medical Air Evac. Attached to the 57th Medevac "The Originals". In
many ways the senselessness of the Vietnam war brought me to become
interested in World War II. I don't know if I can contribute much in
the way of information (on WW II aviation) but I have accumulated a
great deal of research on the Units, Aircraft and men of that period. I
salute the brave men who fought in the skies in the most horrendous of
times.
Roger Beltz
From PX303BG@aol.com Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:26:15 EDT
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:26:15 EDT
From: PX303BG@aol.com PX303BG@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: A-2 Jacket paint
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the information. Especially about the chemical barrier on the
jackets.
Where would you get laquer paint? I've never used oils or laquer before so
I'm going to practice (alot) on some scrap leather before I actually paint on
our jackets.
Vicki Sykes
From susskind@webtv.net Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:00:06 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:00:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Harold Susskind susskind@webtv.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intro
Some of us who served with the 303rd in ww II also served inVietnam. I
was in Vietnam from July of 63 until July of "64 with the 2nd Air
Division. Hal Susskind
From disaac@attglobal.net Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:48:50 -0700
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:48:50 -0700
From: disaac disaac@attglobal.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)
Hello and thanks to our hard-working web-masters & email moderators.
Denise Isaac here, married to Andrew Leith Isaac, who is the natural son
of John Wesley Parker, Jr. Parker was a co-pilot and pilot of the 359th
Squad (Morgan and London crews) and of several Thunderbird missions. I
think he is a good candidate for the "Lost Comrades" search. Born Oct.
9,
1919 in Philadelphia. Not in the Social Security Death index. VA
doesn't
seem to have a Soc Sec number for him. Aside from some marriage &
divorce
info, most everything else we know comes from the 303rd web site (plus
more on the CD I'm sure). We are grateful for the info and the privilege
of having a glimpse into the nature of his experiences and comrades.
303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com wrote:
> Welcome to the 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com mailing list! Thanks for
> subscribing. Please send a short message to introduce yourself.
>
From glm@xmission.com Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:18:58 -0700
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:18:58 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Hi everyone,
I have just added our list of 5,192 303rders for whom we have no
current information. I'm sure there are many on the list some of you
may know about. Many are likely dead, but no one has given me
their names for the "In Memoriam" pages. Look over the list and
see if you can help. There could even be names of some of you
there that got missed in the sorting and resorting to extract this list.
http://www.303rdbga.com/missing.html
Thanks,
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From palidin@netzero.net Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:55:59 -0400
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:55:59 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Mr. Moncur, I never cease to be amazed at the personal courage and
dedication you have devoted to this web page. Please let me speak for the
many, it is not without thanks, not without appreciation, nor ever without
humility that we dedicate our thanks. I say this on behalf of everyone of
us who strives to remember, and learn, and someday hope that the sons and
daughters of some damned courageous teenagers will never have to face the
horror of war on the scale their parents and grand-parents did, but I pray
that we will all have to courage to face up to our responsiblity for the
legacy that that many committed their lives to. Best, Lloyd.
Gary Moncur wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I have just added our list of 5,192 303rders for whom we have no
> current information. I'm sure there are many on the list some of you
> may know about. Many are likely dead, but no one has given me
> their names for the "In Memoriam" pages. Look over the list and
> see if you can help. There could even be names of some of you
> there that got missed in the sorting and resorting to extract this list.
>
> http://www.303rdbga.com/missing.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
> http://www.303rdBGA.com
> http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
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From palidin@netzero.net Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:05:34 -0400
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:05:34 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intro
Hal, no word of thanks will ever be adequate enough to thank you , or the
men who were with you for the gallantry, dedication, and service you have
rendered to ,what must often seem, an ungrateful nation. As long as we
live, your service , and your name will be remembered. Lloyd.
Harold Susskind wrote:
> Some of us who served with the 303rd in ww II also served inVietnam. I
> was in Vietnam from July of 63 until July of "64 with the 2nd Air
> Division. Hal Susskind
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
_______________________________________________
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:23:54 EDT
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:23:54 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: A-2 Jacket paint
Hi Vicky: Try any hobby shop for a zillion colors/sizes of lacquer paint.
Bob Hand.
From Bhandsr@aol.com Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:42:33 EDT
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:42:33 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Amen, amen to that! Did anyone out there see Suicide Mission last nite on
the History Channel? Some of the finest shots of Molesworth's best,
dedicated to the guy down stairs in the ball turret and jampacked with all
sorts of action. And Dick Albright, my ball turret man from Florida, if
you're listening....Thanks, Man! Cheers, Bob Hand
From palidin@netzero.net Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:42:14 -0400
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:42:14 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Bob, this is the second time I have watched the program you mention. Thankgod
it was edited. It makes me very angry to know that we had long range fighter
support available early in the war, but did not have the ingenuity to use it.
Much like the inferior tanks they equipped the armored units with. It P's me
off that alot of brave men were sacrificed to disprove an economic point, and
a major tactical blunder. Sorry, I was'nt there, so I probably have no right
to comment. Bless you all, and eternal thanks for what you accomplished.
Lloyd. ( I will always remember the men, but not many of the Generals).
Bhandsr@aol.com wrote:
> Amen, amen to that! Did anyone out there see Suicide Mission last nite on
> the History Channel? Some of the finest shots of Molesworth's best,
> dedicated to the guy down stairs in the ball turret and jampacked with all
> sorts of action. And Dick Albright, my ball turret man from Florida, if
> you're listening....Thanks, Man! Cheers, Bob Hand
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________
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From Jprencher@aol.com Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:26:05 EDT
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:26:05 EDT
From: Jprencher@aol.com Jprencher@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Hi Gang: I did see part of the "Ball Turret" program last night. I did not
see the part where they made a gear up landing in a B17 with the ball turret
gunner in it because of a "Hydraulic Failure." It's to bad that Hollywood has
to garbage up what we did to educate our youth with what we didn't do. Oh
yes, I'm quite sure the ball turret was the safest position on the crew
although maybe "least dangerous" would be more appropriate Hats off (Helmet
on) to you Bill LaPerch our damn capable ball gunner.
Best Wishes,
Jack
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:35:02 -0500
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:35:02 -0500
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
I wrote to the History Channel three times concerning this poorly written
show. The camera footage was excellent, but the way it was written made the
ball turret guner sound like the most important crew member and the most
dangerous position. And we all know it was a team effort and very dangerous
for everyone on the crew. Although I never did receive a direct comment
back from the History Channel, I did notice the other night that the
narration had been altered some. This is good news and shows the History
Channel is responsive to comments. Although not 100% correct, it was much
better than the show that originally aired about one year ago.
Kevin M. Pearson
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Jprencher@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 2:31 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Hi Gang: I did see part of the "Ball Turret" program last night. I did not
see the part where they made a gear up landing in a B17 with the ball turret
gunner in it because of a "Hydraulic Failure." It's to bad that Hollywood
has
to garbage up what we did to educate our youth with what we didn't do. Oh
yes, I'm quite sure the ball turret was the safest position on the crew
although maybe "least dangerous" would be more appropriate Hats off (Helmet
on) to you Bill LaPerch our damn capable ball gunner.
Best Wishes,
Jack
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From palidin@netzero.net Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:52:26 -0400
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:52:26 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Don Kehne sent me a 30 minute video of Molesworth. It was amazing to see such a
video without the dubbed in audio. It caused me to focus my attention more
closely on the men and the planes. The History Channel leaves alot to be
desired with respect to accuracy, but the producers must at least be thanked for
furthering the memories and reminding us all what the price of freedom entails.
Lloyd.
Kevin Pearson wrote:
> I wrote to the History Channel three times concerning this poorly written
> show. The camera footage was excellent, but the way it was written made the
> ball turret guner sound like the most important crew member and the most
> dangerous position. And we all know it was a team effort and very dangerous
> for everyone on the crew. Although I never did receive a direct comment
> back from the History Channel, I did notice the other night that the
> narration had been altered some. This is good news and shows the History
> Channel is responsive to comments. Although not 100% correct, it was much
> better than the show that originally aired about one year ago.
> Kevin M. Pearson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Jprencher@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 2:31 PM
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
>
> Hi Gang: I did see part of the "Ball Turret" program last night. I did not
> see the part where they made a gear up landing in a B17 with the ball turret
> gunner in it because of a "Hydraulic Failure." It's to bad that Hollywood
> has
> to garbage up what we did to educate our youth with what we didn't do. Oh
> yes, I'm quite sure the ball turret was the safest position on the crew
> although maybe "least dangerous" would be more appropriate Hats off (Helmet
> on) to you Bill LaPerch our damn capable ball gunner.
> Best Wishes,
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:41:14 EDT
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:41:14 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
I'm interested in that 30-min clip on Molesworth that Don K. mentioned.
Unfortunately, I have to ask "How much?" Cheers....Bob Hand (b/Fink's
Crew, 303/360,35m)
From spottedroc@hotmail.com Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:00:49 EDT
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:00:49 EDT
From: Fred Gleason spottedroc@hotmail.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
I am the grandson of Clifford Frederick Muth. I am looking to see how i can
get his service records. Can anyone help me there? I have been to nara.com
and i didnt get nowhere. But lost. If anyone can help me, please do. email:
Spottedroc@hotmail.com
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From spottedroc@hotmail.com Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:01:29 EDT
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:01:29 EDT
From: Fred Gleason spottedroc@hotmail.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
I am the grandson of Clifford Frederick Muth. I am looking to see how i can
get his service records. Can anyone help me there? I have been to nara.com
and i didnt get nowhere. But lost. If anyone can help me, please do. email:
Spottedroc@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________________
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:34:39 EDT
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:34:39 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Can't help you on Cliff's records, sorry. Re/Dutch Rape, couldn't get a
phone number but will try writing him at 303 Braeburn Dr.,Lansdale, PA
19446-5312 . Last saw him at the Savannah GA reunion at the Mighty 8th
museum. Cheers, Bob Hand
From gordy@saltspring.com Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:38:31 -0700
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:38:31 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Fred ,
For official unit histories of the Squadron and Group, that you
contact the U.S. Air Force Historical Research Agency, 600 Chennault
Circle, Maxwell Air Force base, AL 36112-6424.
For personnel records, you would need to contact the U.S. Army Reserve
Components Personnel Center, 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, MO 63132
If you are having trouble at the National Archives, try phoning this
lady:
Doris Jackson, @ 301-713-7250, extension 227. Tell her what you are
after, and she will try to help. She's great.
Gordon Alton, 91BGMA
tailgunnerson
*********************
Hope this helps. If you phone ahead (sorry,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Gleason"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:01 AM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
> I am the grandson of Clifford Frederick Muth. I am looking to see
how i can
> get his service records. Can anyone help me there? I have been to
nara.com
> and i didnt get nowhere. But lost. If anyone can help me, please do.
email:
> Spottedroc@hotmail.com
From ddrewry@mail.mainland.cc.tx.us Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:59:58 -0500
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:59:58 -0500
From: Duke Drewry ddrewry@mail.mainland.cc.tx.us
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
I'm a new member of the 303rd-Talk mailing list. My Dad was James A. =
Drewry--pilot 427th. He was at Molesworth from July 44-Dec.44. I've =
heard from some that knew him and would enjoy hearing from anyone else. =
Dad passed away 29Nov96 after a long battle with prostate cancer. I've =
been checked every year since and this year my PSA was elevated so I had a =
biopsy last week--get results tomorrow. I did get what I take as a good =
sign. On the way to get my biopsy, I glanced toward the clinic and there =
flying overhead was a B-17. It was quite an uplifting experience for me =
as I had many thoughts going through my head at the time and I got the =
message that I was being watched over. I called the next day to confirm =
the sighting and sure enough; the Confederate Air Force's "Texas Raiders" =
had been flying the day before.
Duke Drewry
From Bhandsr@aol.com Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:01:13 EDT
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:01:13 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
Welcome to the 303 Talk, Duke. Anytime you're fortunate enough to see a
Fortress overhead and hear that familiar roar of the engines, that's a lucky
day for you. Take care of that prostate, though, it's a doozy. Three
attacks in three months earlier this year....oyes, 3
catheterizations!!!!!.....well, feeling much better at this stage. If I
survived 35 trips I can surely survive that. Best Wishes and Cheers, Bob
Hand (B/303/
360, Fink's Crew) Cheers, Bob Hand
From SLSiegmund@aol.com Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:50:59 EDT
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:50:59 EDT
From: SLSiegmund@aol.com SLSiegmund@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings all
Hi- Steve Siegmund here from Houston TX- a new member of the group. I am
very interested in the Histpory of this group as I spend most weekends
working at Lone Star Flight Museum in Galvston taking care of our B17G which
is made up as Thunderbird. I have been lucky enough to fly in her a few
times, but I am sure it noting like what you folks went through. I was doing
it for fun. BTW- Thunderbird is curretnly as a result of the number #4
engine being blown. Were hoping to get it replaced in the next few months.
Looks like we won't be at Wings Over Houston.
I have been working on putting together a display of nose art in the musuem
and am interested in finding pictures of other aircraft that may have served
alongside of Thunderbird. I have been to the web page and there are some
good shots, but they really don't have the detail that my artist needs to
reproduce them. Any snapshots of intersting art work would be greatly
appreciated. Please Email first before you send me stuff so I can be
prepared.
I appreciate your help in this project, as well as everything your
genertaion has done for my generation. FYI- anyone in the Houston Galveston
area please feel free to stop by the museum and visit. Anyone wishing to
volunteer is welcome with open arms.
Regards
Steve Siegmund
From glm-303rdbga:com-303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:59:38 -0500
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:59:38 -0500
From: glm-303rdbga:com-303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com glm-303rdbga:com-303rd-talk-owner@303rdBGA.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Mail List
Please remove me from your mailing list. allen@texasdirect.com Thanks
From susskind@webtv.net Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:47:55 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:47:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Harold Susskind susskind@webtv.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
Recommend you contact your congressman and ask him to contact the
Military records bureau in St. Louis on your behalf, otherwise it will
take you a year before you get an answer. Make sure you have his full
name, service number at that time etc. Harold Susskind
From palidin@netzero.net Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:50:44 -0400
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:50:44 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
Bob Hand, Keep shooting , my friend. Best. Lloyd Grant.
Bhandsr@aol.com wrote:
> Welcome to the 303 Talk, Duke. Anytime you're fortunate enough to see a
> Fortress overhead and hear that familiar roar of the engines, that's a lucky
> day for you. Take care of that prostate, though, it's a doozy. Three
> attacks in three months earlier this year....oyes, 3
> catheterizations!!!!!.....well, feeling much better at this stage. If I
> survived 35 trips I can surely survive that. Best Wishes and Cheers, Bob
> Hand (B/303/
> 360, Fink's Crew) Cheers, Bob Hand
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________
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From fory@galesburg.net Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:06:16 -0500
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:06:16 -0500
From: Fory Barton fory@galesburg.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (no subject)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C039E6.83055540
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dutch Rape has an unlisted phone number but the mailing address is =
correct.
He was not in best of health ar Savannah. Christmas card indicated he & =
wife, Ann< were still going.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C039E6.83055540
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dutch Rape has an unlisted phone =
number but the=20
mailing address is correct.
He was not in best of health ar =
Savannah.=20
Christmas card indicated he & wife, Ann< were still=20
going.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C039E6.83055540--
From stevehollifield@yahoo.com Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Hollifield stevehollifield@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The Roar
I was sitting on the sofa a few weeks ago watching TV
and heard an aircraft coming. It isn't unusual for me
to go outside if I think its something
interesting(old), but I was thinking this was just a
helicopter. It got a little closer and I thought hey
this thing has pistons and more than just a few.
Trying not to get my hopes up I figured it was just a
twin engine private plane or maybe an old DC3 if I was
lucky. But, it was low and slow and I though well
I'll go out and look. Upon opening the door the sound
just made my heart soar then I saw the B17. She was
not painted, just aluminum, but just gracefully flying
from South to North over my house at maybe 1500 feet
or so. I thought about what my dad did when he was
younger than me. I was grateful. Well, what it was
and what it is can't be said. Just felt. I think
that's why we like the B17. It feels honest, pure,
patriotic, humble, appreciative, and a host of other
emotions that can't even be named. To the world today
the B17 is just an old plane that has been obsolete
for more than 50 years, but in our hearts she is much
much more.
Steve Hollifield
__________________________________________________
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:59:05 EDT
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:59:05 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The Roar
Steve Hollifeld, you are a poet of the first order. Of course, you've also
got the best material. Be it ever that beautiful image in the sky. Cheers,
Bob Hand (B/Fink's Crew, 303/360-35m)
From thollritt@yahoo.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:00:02 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:00:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New Member
Welcome Duke, My Father Alfred K. Hollritt (427th)
flew from Molesworth May 1944 till October 1944, So
I am sure your Dad and mine were in formation many
times together. Can't wait for that CD ROM!!!
On a happy note Dad will be "Back in Uniform" this
Saturday for an Army Air Force Historical Association
luncheon here in New Jersey. He last wore his original
303rd uniform at the "365th Mission" to Molesworth
last June. Some of the locals thought they were seeing
a ghost when we entered the "Cross Keys" Pub late one
night for a pint!
I think the 303rd Lost Member search will finally
track down the Six missing members of Dad's original
crew. We just found his Navigator last December, So
there is hope!
Todd
__________________________________________________
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From BARONEVL@aol.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:05:57 EDT
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:05:57 EDT
From: BARONEVL@aol.com BARONEVL@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose art
Baron von Lind here,
This site was refered to me by a friend who is a member so I thought I
would drop a line. I am not only a retired pilot (63 now and getting younger
every day!) but also a pinup artist from the 50's and 60's (visit my site at:
www.baronpinups.com) and I am considering a page to my web site called
'Flying Ladies" which will consist of all the pinup nose art from WWII and
after. I plan on 'recreating' as close as possible as many of the nose art
that had pinups on them as possible. I know there are a ton of them out
there and obviously it involves a lot of research. Anyone out there that
could be of any assistance with, sketches, photos, or information about this
I would greatly appreciate. It doesn't have to be fancy but would like to
include any information about the aircraft, it's crew, location (theatre of
ops) and any other info on as many as I can. I have other pilot friends that
are helping but any additional help and info would be great. I plan on
offering this all free with copies of each nose art emblem and possibly will
even include a source (my niece) that can put any nose art emblem and copy on
a coffee mug. I think that would be a neat idea. Any other suggestions will
be most welcome. Thanks for reading this.
Lets keepem flying....Baron Jerry von Lind
From ddrewry@mail.mainland.cc.tx.us Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:10:59 -0500
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:10:59 -0500
From: Duke Drewry ddrewry@mail.mainland.cc.tx.us
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
Thanks, Bob, Dad also survived his 35 trips but even though he gave it a =
great effort, couldn't overcome the disease. I had my appointment today =
and find that I now have the same disease, prostate cancer. Had Dad not =
had it, I probably would not have had my annual checkups and hopefully we =
have caught it soon enough to spare me the fate he and so many others have =
succummed to. I have not yet shared this with my family as they have been =
through enought already with my Dad and am glad I have his comrades and =
now mine to open up to. I appreciate thoughts in your prayers and any =
advice regarding whether to let family know about the situation.
God bless you all,
Duke Drewry
son of James A. Drewry, pilot, 427th.
>>> Bhandsr@aol.com 10/19/00 15:05 PM >>>
Welcome to the 303 Talk, Duke. Anytime you're fortunate enough to see =
a=20
Fortress overhead and hear that familiar roar of the engines, that's a =
lucky=20
day for you. Take care of that prostate, though, it's a doozy. Three=20
attacks in three months earlier this year....oyes, 3=20
catheterizations!!!!!.....well, feeling much better at this stage. If =
I=20
survived 35 trips I can surely survive that. Best Wishes and Cheers, =
Bob=20
Hand (B/303/
360, Fink's Crew) Cheers, Bob Hand
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From gordy@saltspring.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:14:36 -0700
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:14:36 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
Hi Duke,
I am honored that you put that much trust in us, and I'll say a prayer
for you myself. You'll do fine, I'm sure. Attitude is a lot of it, and
you have the right one.
Gordy Alton, 91BGMA
'tailgunnerson'
**********************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duke Drewry"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] New member
Thanks, Bob, Dad also survived his 35 trips but even though he gave it
a great effort, couldn't overcome the disease. I had my appointment
today and find that I now have the same disease, prostate cancer. Had
Dad not had it, I probably would not have had my annual checkups and
hopefully we have caught it soon enough to spare me the fate he and so
many others have succummed to. I have not yet shared this with my
family as they have been through enought already with my Dad and am
glad I have his comrades and now mine to open up to. I appreciate
thoughts in your prayers and any advice regarding whether to let
family know about the situation.
God bless you all,
Duke Drewry
son of James A. Drewry, pilot, 427th.
>>> Bhandsr@aol.com 10/19/00 15:05 PM >>>
Welcome to the 303 Talk, Duke. Anytime you're fortunate enough to
see a
Fortress overhead and hear that familiar roar of the engines, that's a
lucky
day for you. Take care of that prostate, though, it's a doozy.
Three
attacks in three months earlier this year....oyes, 3
catheterizations!!!!!.....well, feeling much better at this stage. If
I
survived 35 trips I can surely survive that. Best Wishes and Cheers,
Bob
Hand (B/303/
360, Fink's Crew) Cheers, Bob Hand
From hans@azstarnet.com Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:45:22 -0600
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:45:22 -0600
From: Bob Hanson hans@azstarnet.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] First Listing
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Sorry, I haven't learned the protocol. But for openers-- can anyone tell =
me what "Project R" was? The term started appearing on my travel orders =
after I finished my tour and got back to the States. It also got me out =
of the service one week after Japan surrendered. Tnx, Old Bob
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Sorry, I haven't learned the protocol. But for =
openers--=20
can anyone tell me what "Project R" was? The term started appearing on =
my travel=20
orders after I finished my tour and got back to the States. It also got =
me out=20
of the service one week after Japan surrendered. Tnx, Old=20
Bob
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From jody53@webtv.net Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dyle Davidson jody53@webtv.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: That prostate---
--WebTV-Mail-2166-476
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Hello Duke--After I returned from the Colorado Springs reunion in 1995 I
was diagnosed with prostate cancer. My option {then} was surgery or
radiation and I started on 39 treatments of radiation at the local
cancer center.
It will be five years this December and my PSA is 1.2 and I feel great.
There are more options for you and your chances are even better now than
they have ever been. I survived 34 trips 'over there' and I too, see a
B-17 {a model} every day on my dresser. I'm sure it is a sign of
survival !
Dyle Davidson 359th/360th
--WebTV-Mail-2166-476
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GOD BLESS AMERICA !
--WebTV-Mail-2166-476--
From Bhandsr@aol.com Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:39:28 EDT
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:39:28 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] New member
Duke, by all means be honest with your family, and trust in your self. All
of this, plus get a good urologist! Have a couple of good friends who have
come successfully through the crisis, one with surgery the other with
radio/implants. It's extra tough when you have it in your family, not much I
can say for that. My good wishes and hopes for your complete recovery.
Cheers, Bob Hand
From Bhandsr@aol.com Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:43:33 EDT
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:43:33 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] First Listing
I believe that "Project R" referred to the program for getting overses
personnel back home. Any other interpretations? Good luck, good health,
Cheers, Bob Hand (B/Fink's Crew, 303/360, 35m)
From wejones@megalink.net Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
From: Bill Jones wejones@megalink.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another question about return trip
> I believe that "Project R" referred to the program for getting overses
> personnel back home. Any other interpretations? Good luck, good health,
My father returned back to the states in early June 1945. I have most of the flight
papers associated with this flight, which was interesting because it went via Iceland
and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field New Hampshire (after passing
almost directly over where I live now in Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they turned in the plane.
On his papers, it refers to "redeployment crews", so perhaps the "R" refers to
"Redeployment" ?
The somewhat related question I have, is that the plane he flew back, 43-39434, was
not a 303rdBG aircraft, but instead one listed in Freeman as having been assigned to
the 8th AF near the end of March, and apparently never saw any action. All the
paperwork seems to refer to something called the "Air Transport Command". Does
this mean that returning crews used planes assigned to this air transport command to
come home rather than 303rd planes? It looks like the crew and passengers were for
the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that this air transport command needed
crews to take their planes back, and crews that had finished up their tours were used,
rather than having them wait to return with the rest of the group? Just curious how it
was decided who would fly what back and who would take a boat, etc.
Another interesting thing about this flight was that there was a "weight balance",
specifying where on the plane all the crew would be located. Seems like a strange
thing to be worried about on a plane that was not loaded with bombs. Is weight
balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not loaded with bombs?
I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a weather map on one side, and a
terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their relationship to the course, on the
other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on them is slowly dissapearing, so they
will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
*****************************************************************
*Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine *
* wejones@megalink.net *
* Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones *
* WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX *
*****************************************************************
From jimwall@ilhawaii.net Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:00:19 -1000
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:00:19 -1000
From: Jim Walling jimwall@ilhawaii.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Missing Comrade Search
Gary,
Malcolm Magid and I are the only known survivors of Lt Goodberlet's crew (358 BS(. Lt Goodberlet, Baloga, Cotter, and Mylonas have passed away. We have been unable to locate any informatio about Charles Mott, bombardier, and Frederick W. Schultz, Tail Gunner. Thanks for all your work.
Aloha, Jim Walling
At 05:18 PM 10/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>I have just added our list of 5,192 303rders for whom we have no
>current information. I'm sure there are many on the list some of you
>may know about. Many are likely dead, but no one has given me
>their names for the "In Memoriam" pages. Look over the list and
>see if you can help. There could even be names of some of you
>there that got missed in the sorting and resorting to extract this list.
>
>http://www.303rdbga.com/missing.html
>
>Thanks,
>
>- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
> http://www.303rdBGA.com
> http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
>
>_______________________________________________
>303rd-Talk mailing list
>303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
>
From thollritt@yahoo.com Mon, 23 Oct 2000 05:48:35 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 05:48:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] re: Nose Art
> From: BARONEVL@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:05:57 EDT
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose art
>
I plan on 'recreating' as close as possible
> as many of the nose art
> that had pinups on them as possible. I know there
> are a ton of them out
> there and obviously it involves a lot of research.
> Anyone out there that
> could be of any assistance with, sketches, photos,
> or information about this
> I would greatly appreciate. It doesn't have to be
> fancy but would like to
> include any information about the aircraft, it's
> crew, location (theatre of
> ops) and any other info on as many as I can. I have
> other pilot friends that
> are helping but any additional help and info would
> be great. I plan on
> offering this all free with copies of each nose art
> emblem and possibly will
> even include a source (my niece) that can put any
> nose art emblem and copy on
> a coffee mug. I think that would be a neat idea.
> Any other suggestions will
> be most welcome. Thanks for reading this.
> Lets keepem flying....Baron Jerry von Lind
Hello Baron Von Lind,
Check out the 303rdBGA web site and look under
"Ground Crew / Nose Art". There is a huge amount of
B&W USAAF crew photos that show about 90%-100% of the
art work on the B-17's. Would love to find some color
photo's of the 303rd nose art! World War II era nose
art is easy to find nowadays with the abundance of
books coming out, some dedicated to the subject.
The artwork created by some of the group's were
amazing. I guess the most familiar would be Tony
Starcer of the 91st BG (H) in Bassingbourn. He was the
expert at capturing the Vargas feel to the Ladies the
graced the Fortresses he painted.
In some cases you may want to use that special
coffee mug paint that disappears when the mug gets hot
or cold, That way you can sell them in public but the
owner can see them the way some were actually painted!
:) Dad recalls when the Queen visited Molesworth the
ground crew scrambled for tarps to cover the nose's of
certain aircraft all over the base. And the tail of
the "Red Ass" of course!
Best of luck with the project.
Todd-
__________________________________________________
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From owen26@tucomm.net Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:21 -0500
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:21 -0500
From: Bill Owen owen26@tucomm.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose Art
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Todd Hollritt,
My brother's crew flew the RED ASS on 3 missions. I looked up the nose =
art on it but it didn't show the whole picture. Looks to be a donkey and =
I assume it must have been painted red. You mentioned covering up the =
tail section when the Queen visited. What was painted on the tail?
Thanks, Bill Owen
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Todd Hollritt,
My brother's crew flew the RED ASS on 3 =
missions. I=20
looked up the nose art on it but it didn't show the whole picture. Looks =
to be a=20
donkey and I assume it must have been painted red. You mentioned =
covering up the=20
tail section when the Queen visited. What was painted on the =
tail?
Thanks, Bill =
Owen
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From mjpmtman@kdsi.net Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:00:26 -0500
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:00:26 -0500
From: Maurice Paulk mjpmtman@kdsi.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] INTRODUCTION
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444th Sub-depot - originally 328th Service Squadron when we hit =
Molesworth Oct 8, 1942.Obtained rank of Sgt.MOS 835 changed to 405 =
later. Worked in A/C Supply under Capt. Joseph Freedman [deceased]. I =
went by the name of "Slim".. Site #1 Supply Barracks near day room. =
Shipped to Africa - ATC - 3months in Africa 2 - in Benghazi Libya. =
Discharged at Ft Leavenworth Sept 27, 1945.--2 yrs at Univerity of Nebr =
at Lincoln-19 years as co-owner and automotive mechanic - 2 years as =
parts clerk in Chrysler Plymouth & 1 as manager- -12 yrs in parts dept =
at Chevrolet- Cadillac dealer. Retired in 1986. Wife Opal retired from =
Grand Island school system in 1989 --really loused up my schedule.
THE MOUNTAIN MAN
a. k. a.
Maurice J. Paulk
205 W 12th St
Wood River, NE -68883-9164
308-583-2583
EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE ME !!
Some when I arrive -
MOST when I leave
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444th Sub-depot - originally =
328th Service=20
Squadron when we hit Molesworth Oct 8, 1942.Obtained rank of Sgt.MOS 835 =
changed=20
to 405 later. Worked in A/C Supply under Capt. Joseph Freedman =
[deceased].=20
I went by the name of "Slim".. Site #1 Supply Barracks near day room. =
Shipped to=20
Africa - ATC - 3months in Africa 2 - in Benghazi Libya. Discharged =
at Ft=20
Leavenworth Sept 27, 1945.--2 yrs at Univerity of Nebr at Lincoln-19 =
years as=20
co-owner and automotive mechanic - 2 years as parts clerk in =
Chrysler=20
Plymouth & 1 as manager- -12 yrs in parts dept at =
Chevrolet-=20
Cadillac dealer. Retired in 1986. Wife Opal retired from Grand Island =
school=20
system in 1989 --really loused up my schedule.
THE MOUNTAIN=20
MAN
a. k.=20
a.
Maurice J. Paulk
205 W 12th St
Wood River, NE=20
-68883-9164
308-583-2583
EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE ME !!
Some when =
I=20
arrive -
MOST when I leave
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C03CF9.982A34C0--
From thollritt@yahoo.com Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
Hello all,
> From: "Bill Jones"
> To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another
> question about return trip
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> My father returned back to the states in early June
> 1945. I have most of the flight
> papers associated with this flight, which was
> interesting because it went via Iceland
> and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field
> New Hampshire (after passing
> almost directly over where I live now in
> Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
> and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they
> turned in the plane.
*** Seems like that route was popular both going to
and returning from the E.T.O. Dad picked up a new
B-17G in Georgia, flew up to Ft. Dix NJ (McQuire
AFB)where the were locked in their barraks (Too many
crews going AWOL) then continuing north buzzing his
pilots house in Millburn and his Mom in Clifton NJ,and
on to Maine and Gander where they were stranded when
the Fortress was buried under a snow storm. They got a
look at the green B-29 that toured the E.T.O. parked
there. Then after a couple of days departed on the
long cold foggy trip to Nutts Corner where they left
the B-17G. And then they were land transported to
(Surprise)Molesworth.
> the crew and passengers were for
> the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that
> this air transport command needed
> crews to take their planes back, and crews that had
> finished up their tours were used,
> rather than having them wait to return with the rest
> of the group? Just curious how it
> was decided who would fly what back and who would
> take a boat, etc.
*** My Dad's Co-Pilot reported that some of the former
303rd Pilots had the sad task of returning 303rd
B-17's to the States after May 1945. In some cases
directly to the smelter at Kingman AZ. He remembers
bored crewmember's milling around a deserted
Molesworth waiting for the O.K. to take another bomber
out. Quite a shuttle operation.
> Another interesting thing about this flight was
> that there was a "weight balance",
> specifying where on the plane all the crew would be
> located. Seems like a strange
> thing to be worried about on a plane that was not
> loaded with bombs. Is weight
> balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not
> loaded with bombs?
>
*** Dad said on their trip over in 1944 they were
loaded with tons of supplies for England. Tires,
Engine Parts, boxes of equipment nose to tail. It's
possible they were bringing a ton of stuff back and
had to account for the weight.
> I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a
> weather map on one side, and a
> terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their
> relationship to the course, on the
> other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on
> them is slowly dissapearing, so they
> will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
*** Get copies made ASAP and store the originals in
the dark.
Talking about trips... Did any of you guys go on the
"Booze Runs" to Scotland. Dad remembers a test flight
that returned with some welcome cargo. A few cases of
Scotch never offset the CG of the aircraft!
Todd
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:42:47 EDT
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:42:47 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
Talk about a welcome home. We returned to the States on the USS Wakefield
after a brisk journey and landed at Hampton Roads, VA. But the surprise was
that to welcome us home, the AA batteries opened up with a salute....imagine
the reaction at the sky filled with ugly black puffs.....couple of the guys
went absolutely nuts. Cheers, Bob Hand
From Wmjdallas@aol.com Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:18:39 EDT
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:18:39 EDT
From: Wmjdallas@aol.com Wmjdallas@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk Project "R"
When I returned from overseas,England, my orders read Project R. I was a POW
and the officers with me assumed that the "R" meant "Returnee."
Bill Dallas
From palidin@netzero.net Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:06:57 -0400
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:06:57 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Mission # 25 (before they raised the ante)
According to the information I have my father comleted his 25 missions
in May of '43. If a man finished his required missions would he be
mustered out, reassigned, or....? I think my father flew at least two
tours, one for sure with the 427th of the 303rd. He retired in 1962 at
the rank of Lt. Col. from Malmstrom AFB. So I am pretty sure he was not
"mustered out". I also know that he flew B-47s with the 303rd out of
McDill in the early 50's . I was born in 1947 at Clark Field. I am
missing the years from 1943 to 1947. Any help, or input from those of
you that stayed in would gratefully be appreciated. My Fathers name was
Lawrence H. Grant, he was from Corpus Christi, Tx., a navigator
throughout his flying career. Whether anyone knew him is not
necessarily germaine, but general information and advice, or comments
will be genuinely appreciated from anyone who can elaborate on the
events that followed your personal completion of required missions. I
thank you all, on behalf of anyone else who , like me , is still
wandering in the maze of lost facts.
God bless the men who served, and the sons and daughters who remember.
Lloyd Grant.
_______________________________________________
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From palidin@netzero.net Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:15:44 -0400
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:15:44 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
Good thing no one bailed out, Bob. Thanks for the anecdote. Cheers to you.
:-) Lloyd.
Bhandsr@aol.com wrote:
> Talk about a welcome home. We returned to the States on the USS Wakefield
> after a brisk journey and landed at Hampton Roads, VA. But the surprise was
> that to welcome us home, the AA batteries opened up with a salute....imagine
> the reaction at the sky filled with ugly black puffs.....couple of the guys
> went absolutely nuts. Cheers, Bob Hand
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
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From westwind@candw.ky Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:52:37 -0500
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:52:37 -0500
From: Georgia McSorley westwind@candw.ky
Subject: [303rd-Talk] INTRODUCTION
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Ye gads....from Wood River, Nebraska. I found your message on the 303rd
page whilst I was looking for old comrades for Arni L. Sumarlidason. He was
with the 358th Sqd. at Molesworth from 1942-3. He was a Pilot flying
several planes including Lager Head and Yankee Doodle Dandy. He doesn't
remember your name, but I thought I would let you know how Wood River was
when I was a child. I was 18 months old when my Grandmother took me there.
She had a sister and brother-in-law in Wood River. Frank Shick ran on of
the 2 grocery stores at that time. The other was owned by Earl Brittin. I
went through the 4th grade there, then moved back to Omaha. Wood River had
3 churches (that I know of). The Methodist and Presbyterian were across the
street from one another. The Catholic Church was a distance away. We had a
Doctor and a Dentist. Our weekly newspaper was the "Sunbeam".
We didn't have a Mortuary....and we had our loved ones at home 'til time for
the funeral.
Can't imagine Wood River with street address, but I haven't been there for
60 years. I have lovely memories of the little town, and still correspond
with a woman I was "best friends" with during those early years. I live in
the Cayman Islands now...have been here for 34 years. Cheers, Georgia
(Redfield) McSorley
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdbga.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdbga.com]On Behalf Of Maurice Paulk
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 1:00 PM
To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] INTRODUCTION
444th Sub-depot - originally 328th Service Squadron when we hit
Molesworth Oct 8, 1942.Obtained rank of Sgt.MOS 835 changed to 405 later.
Worked in A/C Supply under Capt. Joseph Freedman [deceased]. I went by the
name of "Slim".. Site #1 Supply Barracks near day room. Shipped to Africa -
ATC - 3months in Africa 2 - in Benghazi Libya. Discharged at Ft Leavenworth
Sept 27, 1945.--2 yrs at Univerity of Nebr at Lincoln-19 years as co-owner
and automotive mechanic - 2 years as parts clerk in Chrysler Plymouth & 1
as manager- -12 yrs in parts dept at Chevrolet- Cadillac dealer. Retired in
1986. Wife Opal retired from Grand Island school system in 1989 --really
loused up my schedule.
THE MOUNTAIN MAN
a. k. a.
Maurice J. Paulk
205 W 12th St
Wood River, NE -68883-9164
308-583-2583
EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE ME !!
Some when I arrive -
MOST when I leave
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C03DA8.86369CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ye=20
gads....from Wood River, Nebraska. I found your message on the =
303rd page=20
whilst I was looking for old comrades for Arni L. Sumarlidason. He =
was=20
with the 358th Sqd. at Molesworth from 1942-3. He was a =
Pilot flying=20
several planes including Lager Head and Yankee Doodle Dandy. He =
doesn't=20
remember your name, but I thought I would let you know how Wood River =
was when I=20
was a child. I was 18 months old when my Grandmother took me =
there. =20
She had a sister and brother-in-law in Wood River. Frank Shick ran =
on of=20
the 2 grocery stores at that time. The other was owned by Earl=20
Brittin. I went through the 4th grade there, then moved back to=20
Omaha. Wood River had 3 churches (that I know of). The =
Methodist and=20
Presbyterian were across the street from one another. The Catholic =
Church=20
was a distance away. We had a Doctor and a Dentist. Our =
weekly=20
newspaper was the "Sunbeam".
We=20
didn't have a Mortuary....and we had our loved ones at home 'til time =
for the=20
funeral.
Can't=20
imagine Wood River with street address, but I haven't been there for 60=20
years. I have lovely memories of the little town, and still =
correspond=20
with a woman I was "best friends" with during those early years. I =
live in=20
the Cayman Islands now...have been here for 34 years. Cheers, =
Georgia=20
(Redfield) McSorley
444th Sub-depot - originally =
328th Service=20
Squadron when we hit Molesworth Oct 8, 1942.Obtained rank of Sgt.MOS =
835=20
changed to 405 later. Worked in A/C Supply under Capt. Joseph =
Freedman=20
[deceased]. I went by the name of "Slim".. Site #1 Supply Barracks =
near day=20
room. Shipped to Africa - ATC - 3months in Africa 2 - in =
Benghazi Libya.=20
Discharged at Ft Leavenworth Sept 27, 1945.--2 yrs at Univerity of =
Nebr at=20
Lincoln-19 years as co-owner and automotive mechanic - 2 =
years as=20
parts clerk in Chrysler Plymouth & 1 as manager- =
-12 yrs in=20
parts dept at Chevrolet- Cadillac dealer. Retired in 1986. Wife Opal =
retired=20
from Grand Island school system in 1989 --really loused up my=20
schedule.
THE MOUNTAIN=20
MAN
a. k.=20
a.
Maurice J. Paulk
205 W 12th St
Wood River, NE=20
-68883-9164
308-583-2583
EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEE ME !!
Some =
when I=20
arrive -
MOST when I =
leave
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C03DA8.86369CE0--
From thollritt@yahoo.com Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Nose Art
> From: "Bill Owen"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:21 -0500
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose Art
> My brother's crew flew the RED ASS on 3 missions. I
> looked up the nose =
> art on it but it didn't show the whole picture.
> Looks to be a donkey and =
> I assume it must have been painted red. You
> mentioned covering up the =
> tail section when the Queen visited. What was
> painted on the tail?
>
> Thanks, Bill Owen
Bill,
Not sure, I remember years ago Dad talking about
some of the aircraft he saw. The Donkey sounds right
but its possible a crew may have added a slogan of
some sort on the tail too. If someone out there is
good at Nose Art identification go to 427th crew
photos under "Charles E Johnson" 1944. You can just
make out some sort of large art work above the
officer's standing in the back row. Looks like two
tubeular "horns" or something facing outward, With a
large backround of some kind.
Todd-
__________________________________________________
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From owen26@tucomm.net Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:03:22 -0500
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:03:22 -0500
From: Bill Owen owen26@tucomm.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Nose Art
Todd, I think you may be mistaken about RED ASS (#42-5483). Info that I
found says it was shot down on 11-29-43 with the F.A. Brumbeloe crew and
the Charles Johnson crew was assigned in 5-44....Bill Owen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Hollritt"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Nose Art
> > From: "Bill Owen"
> > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:21 -0500
>
> > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose Art
> > My brother's crew flew the RED ASS on 3 missions. I
> > looked up the nose =
> > art on it but it didn't show the whole picture.
> > Looks to be a donkey and =
> > I assume it must have been painted red. You
> > mentioned covering up the =
> > tail section when the Queen visited. What was
> > painted on the tail?
> >
> > Thanks, Bill Owen
>
> Bill,
> Not sure, I remember years ago Dad talking about
> some of the aircraft he saw. The Donkey sounds right
> but its possible a crew may have added a slogan of
> some sort on the tail too. If someone out there is
> good at Nose Art identification go to 427th crew
> photos under "Charles E Johnson" 1944. You can just
> make out some sort of large art work above the
> officer's standing in the back row. Looks like two
> tubeular "horns" or something facing outward, With a
> large backround of some kind.
>
> Todd-
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
From spider@ivic.net Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:58:36 -0700
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:58:36 -0700
From: Dick Smith spider@ivic.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
Tod :
This is Spider Smith . Our crew went on a scotch run to Edenbourough
Scotland .On Our way back to Molesworth our radio operator said he smelled
Gasoline. We turned off all our electric systems and we looked in the bombay
,it was full of fuel about a foot deep. The engineer and the radio operator
went in the bombay and cranked down the Bombay doors about five inches . All
the fuel left the bombay. We turned on the Radio and called molesworth
tower. They instructed us to Bail out and abandon the aircraft. We had a
vote on whether we wanted to abandon all that Scotch and we voted to land
the aircraft. We landed safely and saved twenty cases of Scotch . We should
have received the Distinguished Service Cross ,but all we got was our asses
chewed for not abandoning the aircraft. By the way this was a war weary B17
we were flying.
Spider Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Hollritt"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:12 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
> Hello all,
> > From: "Bill Jones"
> > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another
> > question about return trip
> > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> >
> > My father returned back to the states in early June
> > 1945. I have most of the flight
> > papers associated with this flight, which was
> > interesting because it went via Iceland
> > and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field
> > New Hampshire (after passing
> > almost directly over where I live now in
> > Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
> > and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they
> > turned in the plane.
>
> *** Seems like that route was popular both going to
> and returning from the E.T.O. Dad picked up a new
> B-17G in Georgia, flew up to Ft. Dix NJ (McQuire
> AFB)where the were locked in their barraks (Too many
> crews going AWOL) then continuing north buzzing his
> pilots house in Millburn and his Mom in Clifton NJ,and
> on to Maine and Gander where they were stranded when
> the Fortress was buried under a snow storm. They got a
> look at the green B-29 that toured the E.T.O. parked
> there. Then after a couple of days departed on the
> long cold foggy trip to Nutts Corner where they left
> the B-17G. And then they were land transported to
> (Surprise)Molesworth.
>
> > the crew and passengers were for
> > the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that
> > this air transport command needed
> > crews to take their planes back, and crews that had
> > finished up their tours were used,
> > rather than having them wait to return with the rest
> > of the group? Just curious how it
> > was decided who would fly what back and who would
> > take a boat, etc.
>
> *** My Dad's Co-Pilot reported that some of the former
> 303rd Pilots had the sad task of returning 303rd
> B-17's to the States after May 1945. In some cases
> directly to the smelter at Kingman AZ. He remembers
> bored crewmember's milling around a deserted
> Molesworth waiting for the O.K. to take another bomber
> out. Quite a shuttle operation.
>
> > Another interesting thing about this flight was
> > that there was a "weight balance",
> > specifying where on the plane all the crew would be
> > located. Seems like a strange
> > thing to be worried about on a plane that was not
> > loaded with bombs. Is weight
> > balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not
> > loaded with bombs?
> >
> *** Dad said on their trip over in 1944 they were
> loaded with tons of supplies for England. Tires,
> Engine Parts, boxes of equipment nose to tail. It's
> possible they were bringing a ton of stuff back and
> had to account for the weight.
>
> > I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a
> > weather map on one side, and a
> > terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their
> > relationship to the course, on the
> > other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on
> > them is slowly dissapearing, so they
> > will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
>
> *** Get copies made ASAP and store the originals in
> the dark.
> Talking about trips... Did any of you guys go on the
> "Booze Runs" to Scotland. Dad remembers a test flight
> that returned with some welcome cargo. A few cases of
> Scotch never offset the CG of the aircraft!
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
From palidin@netzero.net Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:32:25 -0400
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:32:25 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
Dick, another amusing annecdote from the annuls of the 303rd. Of course your
must know that it was completely against regulations to "boot-leg" intoxicants
aboard a military aircraft. Lucky for you the statute of limitations has run
out. :--)). Palidin.
Dick Smith wrote:
> Tod :
> This is Spider Smith . Our crew went on a scotch run to Edenbourough
> Scotland .On Our way back to Molesworth our radio operator said he smelled
> Gasoline. We turned off all our electric systems and we looked in the bombay
> ,it was full of fuel about a foot deep. The engineer and the radio operator
> went in the bombay and cranked down the Bombay doors about five inches . All
> the fuel left the bombay. We turned on the Radio and called molesworth
> tower. They instructed us to Bail out and abandon the aircraft. We had a
> vote on whether we wanted to abandon all that Scotch and we voted to land
> the aircraft. We landed safely and saved twenty cases of Scotch . We should
> have received the Distinguished Service Cross ,but all we got was our asses
> chewed for not abandoning the aircraft. By the way this was a war weary B17
> we were flying.
>
> Spider Smith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Hollritt"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:12 PM
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
>
> > Hello all,
> > > From: "Bill Jones"
> > > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> > > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
> > > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another
> > > question about return trip
> > > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> > >
> > > My father returned back to the states in early June
> > > 1945. I have most of the flight
> > > papers associated with this flight, which was
> > > interesting because it went via Iceland
> > > and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field
> > > New Hampshire (after passing
> > > almost directly over where I live now in
> > > Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
> > > and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they
> > > turned in the plane.
> >
> > *** Seems like that route was popular both going to
> > and returning from the E.T.O. Dad picked up a new
> > B-17G in Georgia, flew up to Ft. Dix NJ (McQuire
> > AFB)where the were locked in their barraks (Too many
> > crews going AWOL) then continuing north buzzing his
> > pilots house in Millburn and his Mom in Clifton NJ,and
> > on to Maine and Gander where they were stranded when
> > the Fortress was buried under a snow storm. They got a
> > look at the green B-29 that toured the E.T.O. parked
> > there. Then after a couple of days departed on the
> > long cold foggy trip to Nutts Corner where they left
> > the B-17G. And then they were land transported to
> > (Surprise)Molesworth.
> >
> > > the crew and passengers were for
> > > the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that
> > > this air transport command needed
> > > crews to take their planes back, and crews that had
> > > finished up their tours were used,
> > > rather than having them wait to return with the rest
> > > of the group? Just curious how it
> > > was decided who would fly what back and who would
> > > take a boat, etc.
> >
> > *** My Dad's Co-Pilot reported that some of the former
> > 303rd Pilots had the sad task of returning 303rd
> > B-17's to the States after May 1945. In some cases
> > directly to the smelter at Kingman AZ. He remembers
> > bored crewmember's milling around a deserted
> > Molesworth waiting for the O.K. to take another bomber
> > out. Quite a shuttle operation.
> >
> > > Another interesting thing about this flight was
> > > that there was a "weight balance",
> > > specifying where on the plane all the crew would be
> > > located. Seems like a strange
> > > thing to be worried about on a plane that was not
> > > loaded with bombs. Is weight
> > > balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not
> > > loaded with bombs?
> > >
> > *** Dad said on their trip over in 1944 they were
> > loaded with tons of supplies for England. Tires,
> > Engine Parts, boxes of equipment nose to tail. It's
> > possible they were bringing a ton of stuff back and
> > had to account for the weight.
> >
> > > I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a
> > > weather map on one side, and a
> > > terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their
> > > relationship to the course, on the
> > > other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on
> > > them is slowly dissapearing, so they
> > > will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
> >
> > *** Get copies made ASAP and store the originals in
> > the dark.
> > Talking about trips... Did any of you guys go on the
> > "Booze Runs" to Scotland. Dad remembers a test flight
> > that returned with some welcome cargo. A few cases of
> > Scotch never offset the CG of the aircraft!
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> > http://im.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 303rd-Talk mailing list
> > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
_______________________________________________
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From BNZBOB@aol.com Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:01:00 EDT
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:01:00 EDT
From: BNZBOB@aol.com BNZBOB@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] INTRODUCTION
I'm new to the Talk List so I'll introduce myself. My name is Robert Ives
and I live in Fayetteville, NC and am a retired Army Officer. I was a few
years' shy of being in W.W.II but managed to make Viet Nam. I have always
been interested in the 8th Air Force. When my son was assigned to the Joint
Analyses Center, RAF Molesworth I went on line to find out all I could about
the Base. While on line a ran across the 303rd Web site. What a lucky day
that was! I joined the 303rd BGA and have enjoyed it no end. In September
1999 we visited RAF Molesworth among other places. the Might In Flight
building and the 303rd artifacts therein and the hanger with the Triangle C
were just as pictured on the JAC and 303rd web sites. The JAC personnel
couldn't have been nicer and took great pride in their affiliation with the
303rd BGA. We also visited the American cemetery at Madingley and saw
several of the 303rd members resting places. My son was one of the escorts
for the 365th Mission and the Memorial Dedication last summer. I am still
waiting for his tapes! He felt it was an honor and a privilege to be a part
of the Ceremonies.
I have read "Might In Flight" by LtCol Gobrecht and just finished "Half a
Wing and Three ....." by Brian O'Neil. I noticed a picture of a youthful
Eddie Deerfield festooned with a belt of .50 cal ammunition on page 45. I
about got him confused with a fellow by the name of Clark Gable on page 72.
One question - Was "Hell's Angels" ever painted anything other than OD?
Thanks, I am certainly looking forward to more TALK!
From mail148779@pop.net Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:39:00 -0400
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:39:00 -0400
From: Matt Petersen mail148779@pop.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Booze run
Dick,
My father ( F/O John N. Petersen) told me a lot of stories about his
experiences with the 303rd. One in particular always stuck with me. He told
me about a emergency landing that needed to be made on a return from a
mission. It seems that a landing gear got shot up pretty bad and they
weren't able to make back to base. So, they made a landing on a emergency
field in Scotland. Not to far from the landing field was a distillery. They
contacted base about their situation and the distillery. Landing gear parts
were sent to make repairs, along with a request to purchase as much scotch
as the plane could hold. When they finally landed at the base they were
instructed to stop at the far end of the field. An ambulance greeted them
and loaded the scotch into the ambulance.
Regards,
Matt Petersen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Smith"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
> Tod :
> This is Spider Smith . Our crew went on a scotch run to Edenbourough
> Scotland .On Our way back to Molesworth our radio operator said he smelled
> Gasoline. We turned off all our electric systems and we looked in the
bombay
> ,it was full of fuel about a foot deep. The engineer and the radio
operator
> went in the bombay and cranked down the Bombay doors about five inches .
All
> the fuel left the bombay. We turned on the Radio and called molesworth
> tower. They instructed us to Bail out and abandon the aircraft. We had a
> vote on whether we wanted to abandon all that Scotch and we voted to land
> the aircraft. We landed safely and saved twenty cases of Scotch . We
should
> have received the Distinguished Service Cross ,but all we got was our
asses
> chewed for not abandoning the aircraft. By the way this was a war weary
B17
> we were flying.
>
> Spider Smith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Hollritt"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:12 PM
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
>
>
> > Hello all,
> > > From: "Bill Jones"
> > > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> > > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
> > > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another
> > > question about return trip
> > > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> > >
> > > My father returned back to the states in early June
> > > 1945. I have most of the flight
> > > papers associated with this flight, which was
> > > interesting because it went via Iceland
> > > and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field
> > > New Hampshire (after passing
> > > almost directly over where I live now in
> > > Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
> > > and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they
> > > turned in the plane.
> >
> > *** Seems like that route was popular both going to
> > and returning from the E.T.O. Dad picked up a new
> > B-17G in Georgia, flew up to Ft. Dix NJ (McQuire
> > AFB)where the were locked in their barraks (Too many
> > crews going AWOL) then continuing north buzzing his
> > pilots house in Millburn and his Mom in Clifton NJ,and
> > on to Maine and Gander where they were stranded when
> > the Fortress was buried under a snow storm. They got a
> > look at the green B-29 that toured the E.T.O. parked
> > there. Then after a couple of days departed on the
> > long cold foggy trip to Nutts Corner where they left
> > the B-17G. And then they were land transported to
> > (Surprise)Molesworth.
> >
> > > the crew and passengers were for
> > > the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that
> > > this air transport command needed
> > > crews to take their planes back, and crews that had
> > > finished up their tours were used,
> > > rather than having them wait to return with the rest
> > > of the group? Just curious how it
> > > was decided who would fly what back and who would
> > > take a boat, etc.
> >
> > *** My Dad's Co-Pilot reported that some of the former
> > 303rd Pilots had the sad task of returning 303rd
> > B-17's to the States after May 1945. In some cases
> > directly to the smelter at Kingman AZ. He remembers
> > bored crewmember's milling around a deserted
> > Molesworth waiting for the O.K. to take another bomber
> > out. Quite a shuttle operation.
> >
> > > Another interesting thing about this flight was
> > > that there was a "weight balance",
> > > specifying where on the plane all the crew would be
> > > located. Seems like a strange
> > > thing to be worried about on a plane that was not
> > > loaded with bombs. Is weight
> > > balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not
> > > loaded with bombs?
> > >
> > *** Dad said on their trip over in 1944 they were
> > loaded with tons of supplies for England. Tires,
> > Engine Parts, boxes of equipment nose to tail. It's
> > possible they were bringing a ton of stuff back and
> > had to account for the weight.
> >
> > > I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a
> > > weather map on one side, and a
> > > terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their
> > > relationship to the course, on the
> > > other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on
> > > them is slowly dissapearing, so they
> > > will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
> >
> > *** Get copies made ASAP and store the originals in
> > the dark.
> > Talking about trips... Did any of you guys go on the
> > "Booze Runs" to Scotland. Dad remembers a test flight
> > that returned with some welcome cargo. A few cases of
> > Scotch never offset the CG of the aircraft!
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> > http://im.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 303rd-Talk mailing list
> > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
From palidin@netzero.net Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:12:21 -0400
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:12:21 -0400
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Booze run
Our Grand fathers' tax dollars at work. I don't think they would have minded,
do you? Palidin.
Matt Petersen wrote:
> Dick,
>
> My father ( F/O John N. Petersen) told me a lot of stories about his
> experiences with the 303rd. One in particular always stuck with me. He told
> me about a emergency landing that needed to be made on a return from a
> mission. It seems that a landing gear got shot up pretty bad and they
> weren't able to make back to base. So, they made a landing on a emergency
> field in Scotland. Not to far from the landing field was a distillery. They
> contacted base about their situation and the distillery. Landing gear parts
> were sent to make repairs, along with a request to purchase as much scotch
> as the plane could hold. When they finally landed at the base they were
> instructed to stop at the far end of the field. An ambulance greeted them
> and loaded the scotch into the ambulance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt Petersen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Smith"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
>
> > Tod :
> > This is Spider Smith . Our crew went on a scotch run to Edenbourough
> > Scotland .On Our way back to Molesworth our radio operator said he smelled
> > Gasoline. We turned off all our electric systems and we looked in the
> bombay
> > ,it was full of fuel about a foot deep. The engineer and the radio
> operator
> > went in the bombay and cranked down the Bombay doors about five inches .
> All
> > the fuel left the bombay. We turned on the Radio and called molesworth
> > tower. They instructed us to Bail out and abandon the aircraft. We had a
> > vote on whether we wanted to abandon all that Scotch and we voted to land
> > the aircraft. We landed safely and saved twenty cases of Scotch . We
> should
> > have received the Distinguished Service Cross ,but all we got was our
> asses
> > chewed for not abandoning the aircraft. By the way this was a war weary
> B17
> > we were flying.
> >
> > Spider Smith
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Todd Hollritt"
> > To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 2:12 PM
> > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Another question about the return trip.
> >
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > > > From: "Bill Jones"
> > > > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
> > > > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:01:46 -0400
> > > > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] First Listing + another
> > > > question about return trip
> > > > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
> > > >
> > > > My father returned back to the states in early June
> > > > 1945. I have most of the flight
> > > > papers associated with this flight, which was
> > > > interesting because it went via Iceland
> > > > and BW-1 in Greenland, ending up at Grenier field
> > > > New Hampshire (after passing
> > > > almost directly over where I live now in
> > > > Maine...that would have been a sight to see),
> > > > and then Bradley field Connecticut, where they
> > > > turned in the plane.
> > >
> > > *** Seems like that route was popular both going to
> > > and returning from the E.T.O. Dad picked up a new
> > > B-17G in Georgia, flew up to Ft. Dix NJ (McQuire
> > > AFB)where the were locked in their barraks (Too many
> > > crews going AWOL) then continuing north buzzing his
> > > pilots house in Millburn and his Mom in Clifton NJ,and
> > > on to Maine and Gander where they were stranded when
> > > the Fortress was buried under a snow storm. They got a
> > > look at the green B-29 that toured the E.T.O. parked
> > > there. Then after a couple of days departed on the
> > > long cold foggy trip to Nutts Corner where they left
> > > the B-17G. And then they were land transported to
> > > (Surprise)Molesworth.
> > >
> > > > the crew and passengers were for
> > > > the most part 303rd personnel. Was it just that
> > > > this air transport command needed
> > > > crews to take their planes back, and crews that had
> > > > finished up their tours were used,
> > > > rather than having them wait to return with the rest
> > > > of the group? Just curious how it
> > > > was decided who would fly what back and who would
> > > > take a boat, etc.
> > >
> > > *** My Dad's Co-Pilot reported that some of the former
> > > 303rd Pilots had the sad task of returning 303rd
> > > B-17's to the States after May 1945. In some cases
> > > directly to the smelter at Kingman AZ. He remembers
> > > bored crewmember's milling around a deserted
> > > Molesworth waiting for the O.K. to take another bomber
> > > out. Quite a shuttle operation.
> > >
> > > > Another interesting thing about this flight was
> > > > that there was a "weight balance",
> > > > specifying where on the plane all the crew would be
> > > > located. Seems like a strange
> > > > thing to be worried about on a plane that was not
> > > > loaded with bombs. Is weight
> > > > balance on a B-17 more of a consideration when not
> > > > loaded with bombs?
> > > >
> > > *** Dad said on their trip over in 1944 they were
> > > loaded with tons of supplies for England. Tires,
> > > Engine Parts, boxes of equipment nose to tail. It's
> > > possible they were bringing a ton of stuff back and
> > > had to account for the weight.
> > >
> > > > I have thes big charts for the return trip, with a
> > > > weather map on one side, and a
> > > > terrain map showing mountain altitudes and their
> > > > relationship to the course, on the
> > > > other side. Very interesting, but the ink used on
> > > > them is slowly dissapearing, so they
> > > > will be un-readable soon, which is too bad.
> > >
> > > *** Get copies made ASAP and store the originals in
> > > the dark.
> > > Talking about trips... Did any of you guys go on the
> > > "Booze Runs" to Scotland. Dad remembers a test flight
> > > that returned with some welcome cargo. A few cases of
> > > Scotch never offset the CG of the aircraft!
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> > > http://im.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 303rd-Talk mailing list
> > > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 303rd-Talk mailing list
> > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:41:03 EDT
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:41:03 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Booze run
One Sat. AM I did a booze run from Midland AFB to Randolph in an AT-ll,
courtesy of a pilot named Hoogasian. Before we ran up the engines we were
called back by the tower because of an impending thunderstorm. We hung
around until it was spent....a bolt hit the water tower and did no damage.
Took off and were 100 feet over the perimeter road when the tachs zeroed and
both engines quit. "WOBBLE!!!" Hoogasian screamed, and wobble I did while he
switched tanks.....wobbled all the way to Randolph, in fact. Used to fill a
suitcase with pints of whatever and peddle them back at the base....$7 a pint
was the going rate. Better than sittin' around doing nothing. Cheers, Bob
Hand
From thollritt@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Nose Art and the Scotch Run
> > > From: "Bill Owen"
> > > To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:13:21 -0500
> >
> > > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Nose Art
*** Bill,
I checked with Dad and he thought the name was
the same but, But 50+ years later tends to blurr the
memories I guess. He said one of the aircraft had some
kind of red painted "art" work on the tail of a B-17
that they had to cover up.
> Tod :
> This is Spider Smith . Our crew went on a scotch
> run to Edenbourough
> Scotland .
*** Ah Ha! I knew other crews made that run. Dad said
he thought other crews made the "Test fight" also. He
still enjoys a glass of Scotch every now and then,
Blame it on the Army Air Force standard De-Breifing
shot after a mission. Now we know where the stock pile
came from ;)
Todd
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From thollritt@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
Anyone know if the Stars and Stripes ever released
the footage from the 303rd's Return to Molesworth -
365th Mission . That camera crew took a ton of
footage! I would be interested in what actually made
it to broadcast or on tape.
I have a few hours of footage from that trip plus
two tapes from last years visit to England... Stay
tuned for the possible release of "8th Air Force Base
and Pub Tour" video coming soon...
Todd-
__________________________________________________
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From gordy@saltspring.com Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:27:00 -0700
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:27:00 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
Howdy, Todd.
If you guys manage to locate it, I would be interested, too. I'm
involved in a 91BG project right now, and we could use a little
background "today" footage, as well. Please keep me in mind.
Thanks.
Gordy.
***********
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Hollritt"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:09 PM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
> Anyone know if the Stars and Stripes ever released
> the footage from the 303rd's Return to Molesworth -
> 365th Mission . That camera crew took a ton of
> footage! I would be interested in what actually made
> it to broadcast or on tape.
> I have a few hours of footage from that trip plus
> two tapes from last years visit to England... Stay
> tuned for the possible release of "8th Air Force Base
> and Pub Tour" video coming soon...
>
> Todd-
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From spottedroc@hotmail.com Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:54:04 EDT
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:54:04 EDT
From: Fred Gleason spottedroc@hotmail.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
Todd wrote:
>
> > Anyone know if the Stars and Stripes ever released
> > the footage from the 303rd's Return to Molesworth -
> > 365th Mission . That camera crew took a ton of
> > footage! I would be interested in what actually made
> > it to broadcast or on tape.
> > I have a few hours of footage from that trip plus
> > two tapes from last years visit to England... Stay
> > tuned for the possible release of "8th Air Force Base
> > and Pub Tour" video coming soon...
> >
> > Todd-
Keep me informed of this footage. I am interested in seeing it myself as
well. Thanks, Fred.
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From fory@galesburg.net Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:44:29 -0500
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:44:29 -0500
From: Fory Barton fory@galesburg.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] "MILK RUNS"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C03F9E.4D44A1A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
After Kuykendalls crew made Lead, we flew a number of missions to the =
front lines in the Wabash Cannonball. AS Radio Operator I was required =
even on a couple of those missions to Scotland.
I lost my taste for Scotch while over there.
Fory "Buzz" Barton
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C03F9E.4D44A1A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
After Kuykendalls crew made Lead, we =
flew a=20
number of missions to the front lines in the Wabash Cannonball. AS Radio =
Operator I was required even on a couple of those missions to=20
Scotland.
I lost my taste for Scotch while over=20
there.
Fory "Buzz" =
Barton
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C03F9E.4D44A1A0--
From thollritt@yahoo.com Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Hollritt thollritt@yahoo.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re : Molesworth 200 reunion
Hello Gordy,
I visited the 91st BG (Bassingbourn) last September
and have some nice video of the base including the
control tower museum and former hangers. If anyone is
planning on visting this active Britsh Army base you
must make an apointment to get permission to enter the
former 8th Air Force base and request a tour. It's
well worth the trip as the Tech Site is just as it was
during WWII. What a Country Club it was! Three large
hangers the control tower and most of the building's
still stand today, and some of the runway and taxiways
are visible too. Its worth it just to watch the
British troops march around like some Monty Python
sketch everywhere they walk! They are not aloud to
walk normal anywhere on the base... Silly Brit types
:)
Todd
Contact Me off list if your intrested in some footage.
> From: "Gordon Alton"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:27:00 -0700
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com
>
> Howdy, Todd.
> If you guys manage to locate it, I would be
> interested, too. I'm
> involved in a 91BG project right now, and we could
> use a little
> background "today" footage, as well. Please keep me
> in mind.
> Thanks.
> Gordy.
> ***********
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Hollritt"
> To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:09 PM
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Molesworth 2000 reunion
>
>
> > Anyone know if the Stars and Stripes ever released
> > the footage from the 303rd's Return to Molesworth
> -
> > 365th Mission . That camera crew took a ton of
> > footage! I would be interested in what actually
> made
> > it to broadcast or on tape.
> > I have a few hours of footage from that trip
> plus
> > two tapes from last years visit to England... Stay
> > tuned for the possible release of "8th Air Force
> Base
> > and Pub Tour" video coming soon...
> >
> > Todd-
> >
> > __________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
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From Bhandsr@aol.com Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:22:11 EDT
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:22:11 EDT
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] "MILK RUNS"
As an old barracksmate of Roger Kuykendall, he is sadly missed. Cheers, Bob
Hand, (B/
Fink's Crew, 303/360, 35m)
From gordy@saltspring.com Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:26:41 -0700
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:26:41 -0700
From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re : Molesworth 200 reunion
Yes, that's Steve's new address. He has been on a bit of a leave, but
is back at it again, I understand. I will second the motion, they are
a fine, dedicated bunch at Bassingbourn. They go out of their way to
make visitors welcome.
Gordy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Pearson"
To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 6:54 AM
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] Re : Molesworth 200 reunion
> Bassingbourn is a wonderful, wonderful base to visit for all the
previous
> reasons listed by Todd. The base is open every Wednesday and
Saturday in
> the morning, but prior arrangements should be made. The museum is
> spectacular, one of the top three museum in the UK dedicated to 8th
AF heavy
> bomb groups (#1 - 100th BG at Thorpe Abbotts; #2 - 390th BG at
Framlingham
> (Parnham), and #3, the 91st BG at Bassingbourn). Look for the
Emergency
> Ration Tin in the museum that was given to me in Diederode Germany
that was
> taken from the crash site of Lassie Come Home, 42-31673, lost
16.8.44,
> enroute to the Seible aircraft works at Halle.
>
> Make sure to see the large memorial at the 324th Squadron Dispursal
on the
> east side of the A-14. the Golden Lion in Royston, and the 355th FG
base at
> Steeple Morden while you are in the area. Three of the four C-type
hangars
> remain at Bassingbourn, the 401st BS hangar was torn down a couple
of years
> ago. The Nissen huts for pilot and navigator briefing are still
intact, as
> well as the H-Block billets,the Administration Block and Cummunal
Sites.
> Sections of the Number 25 long runway are still intact, but the the
Deport
> for the Queen's Regiment tore up most of the runway for a lake for
water
> training excesizes. There is a magificent fry pan hardstand on the
west
> side of the base, with a firing butt next to it. Climbing up on the
firing
> butt, there is a magnificent view of the base.
>
> I've sent this story out once before, but there have been many new
members
> since, so I am resending it. It's called Return to Bassinbourn and
appeared
> in 8th AF News a couple of years ago.
>
> Here are some Bassingbourn contacts:
>
> Peter Roberts, President
> East Anglian Aviation Society
> 33 Springfield Road
> Cambridge CB4 1AD
> England
> United Kingdom
> Phone: 011.44.1223.356314
> (You will find no finer man alive!)
>
> or
>
> Steve C. Pena
> Curator
> Bramble Cottage
> Netherstones
> Stotfold, Herts
> SG5 4BX England
> Phone 011.44.1462.835.787
> (Second finest man alive!)
>
> Hey, Gordy, is this Steve's new address near Lavenham?
>
> I hope you enjoy my story.
> Kevin M. Pearson, Secretary
> Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing
> Eighth Air Force Historical Society
> 2514 W. Woodland
> St. Joseph, MO 64506
> Phone: 816.364.5576
>
>
From billrunnels@juno.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:52:24 -0500
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:52:24 -0500
From: Billy L Runnels billrunnels@juno.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Bill Runnels is the name and billrunnels@juno.com is my e-mail address.I
arrived at Molesworth,England with the Howard C. Lacker Crew on February
1,1945 . We were assigned to the 360th Sqd. My first mission was to
Dresden on Feb.15th and my last to Bayreuth on April 5th. I flew a total
of fourteen missions ,'the last three with deputy lead crews. My original
crew (Lacker) was lost on April 6th near Leipzig, Germany in a
mid-air collision. Following time in the service I spent thirty two
years in commercial aviation, marketing and sales retiring from Republicm
Airlines in 1981.
Glad to be a part of the talk group.
From lcoleman@rmci.net Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:55:13 -0600
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:55:13 -0600
From: Loyd Coleman lcoleman@rmci.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Name
Can any one give me the name of the M/SGT that was in
charge of the 427th Sq. Orderly room during the dates of
Nov.44 -- April 45 ?
lcoleman@rmci.net
From Jprencher@aol.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:16:29 EDT
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:16:29 EDT
From: Jprencher@aol.com Jprencher@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Bill, The 303rd needs you as a member. You need the 303rd to enrich your
life like it has mine. Suggest you contact membership chairman Dennis Smith at
dennis@303rdBGA.com
Welcome Aboard
Jack Rencher,
From billrunnels@juno.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:42:08 -0500
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:42:08 -0500
From: Billy L Runnels billrunnels@juno.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Thanks for the 303rd membership suggestion. I have been a Life Member for
a good many years and have enjoyed the association. Thanks again.
From bsbrown@servtech.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:11:43 -0400
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:11:43 -0400
From: Bruce/Lois Brown bsbrown@servtech.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Bill, You are the first person since I have joined the 303rd talk group who
may have known my brother Howard Weinberg. Howie was one of those lost on
the mission over Leipzeig, though he was on the Alderman plane. He had only
recently arrived at the base and (from my family's lore) had volunteered as
Bombardier on that mission. It was his first. Lois Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Billy L Runnels
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:52 AM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Bill Runnels is the name and billrunnels@juno.com is my e-mail address.I
arrived at Molesworth,England with the Howard C. Lacker Crew on February
1,1945 . We were assigned to the 360th Sqd. My first mission was to
Dresden on Feb.15th and my last to Bayreuth on April 5th. I flew a total
of fourteen missions ,'the last three with deputy lead crews. My original
crew (Lacker) was lost on April 6th near Leipzig, Germany in a
mid-air collision. Following time in the service I spent thirty two
years in commercial aviation, marketing and sales retiring from Republicm
Airlines in 1981.
Glad to be a part of the talk group.
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From glm@303rdBGA.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:00:08 -0700
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:00:08 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@303rdBGA.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Lt. Howard Weinberg
------- Forwarded message follows -------
Send reply to:
From: "Bruce/Lois Brown"
To: <303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com>
Subject: Lt. Howard Weinberg
Date sent: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:52:45 -0400
To All of You Out There,
My brother, Howard George Weinberg, a bombardier for the 427th, was lost on
April 6, 1945 when his B17 went down near Leipzig, Germany in an air
collision with another B17. Both crews were killed. I was 11 at the time;
Howie had just turned 23. It was his only mission. My mother told me he
had volunteered as a substitute Bombardier on what turned out to be the
fated "Green Hills Belle."
Recently one of my sons discovered the 303rd web site. There he found
Howie's name listed. After all these years. (What my parent's would have
given for this research tool!) My sons, my husband and I were filled with
hope that through this astonishing website we might come across someone who
had known Howie in the service.
About five or six years ago, I explored the idea of writing about the effect
Howie's death had on our family. After some futile sleuthing, I turned to
NY State Senator Moynihan's office for help. The staff were ENORMOUSLY
helpful. One day a thick file arrived concerning Howie and the
circumstances which surrounded his death. There was even the unexpected
discovery of a copy of a note in my Dad's handwriting desperately asking the
War Department for information on his "missing" eldest son.
In the file is a remarkable bit, here simply told, about the crews of both
planes having been buried twice in a common grave, once immediately after
the accident, and later reinterred at another site. When the US people
finally located the bodies to bring them home, none of them could be
identified. It was only because Howie's dogtags were in the grave that the
puzzle could be solved. He was a hero after all.
Hope to hear from some of you soon.
Best to you all, Lois (Weinberg) Brown
------- End of forwarded message -------
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From Jprencher@aol.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:23:57 EDT
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:23:57 EDT
From: Jprencher@aol.com Jprencher@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] (Fwd) Lt. Howard Weinberg
I will look at the loading lists on the other planes that flew with your
Brother on the mission where he was lost and send you their names. Possibly
some of them might have known him. It is somewhat doubtful as this was his
first mission, so I don't want to give you any false hope but we wiil try. I
was not there in 1945. Sherman was right. I'm very sorry. My deepest
sympathy.
Jack Rencher Jprencher@aol.com
From billrunnels@juno.com Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:40:21 -0500
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:40:21 -0500
From: Billy L Runnels billrunnels@juno.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Lois, I wish I could report that I knew Howie but I didn't have that
pleasure. My sqd. the
360th was located some distance from the 427th so the chance of our
meeting was slim.
The other B-17 in the mid-air was piloted by Lt. Howard C. Lacker. They
were on their
22nd mission. I trained with this crew and flew 11 missions with them
before being assiged lead crew status-bombardier. I was not on the April
6th mission.Please accept my belated sympathy on the loss of your
brother.
From wejones@megalink.net Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:47:15 -0500
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:47:15 -0500
From: Bill Jones wejones@megalink.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Rest homes?Lytham?Sta 582?
Among the variety of things I've found among the items my father brought back from
the war, was a little note titled "Route to 582", and the directions on the note had:
Leave----Kettering----10:20
Arrive----Manchester(Central)----14:09
Leave---Mancester(Victoria)----15:10
Arrive---Lytham ---------------------16:52
There was also a War Department Railway Warrant for the return trip from Lytham to
Kettering, and the reason for travel was given as return from temporary duty.
I'm assuming that 582 must be one of those rest homes, that crews were sent to, but I
can't find any reference to a rest home labled as station 582. In looking through my
microfilm records, I've noticed several rest homes and hospitals listed, that crews from
the 303rd were sent to (I couldn't find any record of my father being sent) including:
Sta 511 Mouleford Manor
Sta 563 Furzedown House
Sta 562 Spotchley Park
Sta 524 Palace Hotel , Southport
Sta 498 Ebrington Manor
Sta 503 Roke Manor
Sta 503 Stanbridge Earls (not sure if this is a misprint, ie 2 503s)
And several locations without Station Numbers listed:
? Sutton Coldfield
? Grosvenor House
? Greenham Commons
? Farnsburough
? Cavendish Red Cross Dormitory, Northampton
? Casual center CES Cadogan Place London
However none of these are identified as sta 582, and none of these seem to be near
Lytham. I communicated with an individual from GB on another list, who indicated that
Lytham was near a resort area on the west coast of the island, which further convinced
me that 582 must be a rest home, but I'd be curious to know what the name of the
particular home/resort was in that area?
Or, was there some other reason like training that tempory duty would take a person
to Lytham? I can't find reference to any of the bomb groups being located in that area.
So does anyone know what Sta 582 was, or what facility was located near Lytham?
*****************************************************************
*Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine *
* wejones@megalink.net *
* Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones *
* WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX *
*****************************************************************
From IBSPEC@aol.com Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:05:55 EST
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:05:55 EST
From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
the b24 has a dragon painted it's entire length. the fortress is plain. at
chesterfield county airport. ibspec@aol.com
From Bhandsr@aol.com Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:21:47 EST
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:21:47 EST
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] new talk member introduction
Welcome to the greatest source of information about WWII....guaranteed you'll
find people you haven't talked to in ages. Was Bombardier w/Fink's Crew,
360th Sq., flew first mission on Oct.17 to Cologne and our 35th and last to
Berlin, 3 Feb. '45. Well remember the terror of Leipzig on Nov.30 where our
Nav. lost an eye. Imagine still being alive after all that stuff! Best
wishes and cheers......Bob Hand
From SLSiegmund@aol.com Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:01:37 EST
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:01:37 EST
From: SLSiegmund@aol.com SLSiegmund@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
I believe your are referring to the Collins Foundations aircraft. The B24 is
currently the only true flying example left in the world(although there is
one under restoration in Australia and the CAF has a Cargo version).
The B24 is painted as All American on one side, and "The Dragon and his tail"
on the other side. The B17 is done in the markings of Nine-oh-Nine.
They are both excellent aircraft. In addition for about 300 dollars a ride
can be had in either one.
From IBSPEC@aol.com Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:08:35 EST
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:08:35 EST
From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
you are correct , as i just read a news story about them. each year such
aircraft stop here. thanks. ibspec@aol.com
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:39:49 -0500
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:39:49 -0500
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
You are wrong about the Colin's Foundation having the only airworthy B-24 in
the world. You forget the Confederate Air Force's "Diamond Lil." I saw her
about a month ago at Whiteman AFB in Missouri.
Kevin Pearson
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com [SMTP:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com] On
Behalf Of SLSiegmund@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 8:08 PM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
I believe your are referring to the Collins Foundations aircraft. The B24
is
currently the only true flying example left in the world(although there is
one under restoration in Australia and the CAF has a Cargo version).
The B24 is painted as All American on one side, and "The Dragon and his
tail"
on the other side. The B17 is done in the markings of Nine-oh-Nine.
They are both excellent aircraft. In addition for about 300 dollars a ride
can be had in either one.
_______________________________________________
303rd-Talk mailing list
303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
From SLSiegmund@aol.com Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:31:11 EST
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:31:11 EST
From: SLSiegmund@aol.com SLSiegmund@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] b17 and b24 on exhibit in richmond,va. today
"You are wrong about the Colin's Foundation having the only airworthy B-24 in
the world. You forget the Confederate Air Force's "Diamond Lil." I saw her
about a month ago at Whiteman AFB in Missouri.
Kevin Pearson"
Actually Kevin- The CAF's Diamond Lil is a British RLB-30, which is a cargo
variant of the B24. It has several modifations, including a cargo door. At
this time the Only actual B24 flying is the Collings aircraft, although
Kermit Weeks has one which is theoretically airworthy. Serious questions have
been raised in regard to its structural integtricty and as a result he does
not fly it.
From misixflsix@webtv.net Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:58:39 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:58:39 -0500 (EST)
From: misixflsix@webtv.net misixflsix@webtv.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Lloyd Coleman
You asked for the name of the MSgt in charge of the orderly room of the
427th Bomb Sq. The First Sgt was named Bright. I am in Florida and do
not have his full name. I joined the 427th in Boise ID in Jun 42 and
stayed with it until it was deactivated in North Africa. I was Chief
Clerk in Group Communications, later trfd toHq Sq but stayed in the same
job and same barracks.
From wejones@megalink.net Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:15:05 -0500
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:15:05 -0500
From: Bill Jones wejones@megalink.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] questionnair
I guess this is mainly a question for Gary Moncur, or Harry Gobrecht or Ed Miller, but
I thought that the other list readers might be interested in the answer, so I'm posting
the question.
I just noticed in the what's new section of the 303rdbga web page, a request for
members and family of members to fill out a biographical questionnair. The header on
the questionnair states that the biography might become part of the upcoming CDROM.
I guess my main question is, does this mean that production of the CDROM will be
delayed? I've been anxiously awaiting the CDROM, which I had assumed would be
coming out very shortly, but if there is any chance of this biographical information
being included, I don't see how it can be produced on schedule. I'd really hope that
this information be saved for a future CD. Anyway, when is the CD expected to be
shipped?
It is also not clear whether and how family of deceased members can fill out the
form. Should family just put in whatever info is known, and stories as we heard them?
Thanks
*****************************************************************
*Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine *
* wejones@megalink.net *
* Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones *
* WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX *
*****************************************************************
From glm@303rd.com Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:36:47 -0700
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:36:47 -0700
From: Gary Moncur glm@303rd.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] questionnair
Bill - and everyone,
Bad news first - yes, the CD is being delayed. Ed asked me not to
update the web page until he can notify all who have purchased the
CD. That letter is being done as I type. I'm not sure how long the
delay is, but I suspect 2 or 3 months. The missions are all
completed, but some problems were discovered during the
proofreading. From what I understand, many of the mission
records have discrepiences between the formation flown and the
crew loading lists. Some crews on the loading lists were not shown
in the formation diagram, and vice versa. Also, some of the aircraft
were shown differently on different records. Those records now
have to be looked at again to determine the correct crews and
aircraft. Ed was determined to get the CD out on schedule, but
was forced to delay it in the interest of accuracy. I'll let everyone
know more as soon as I do.
The Questionnaire now online is a reprint of one that went out to
members quite some time ago. Any new info uncovered on the
bios would not likely make it into the first edition of the CD. There
likely will be a second edition, so we'll see how that goes. The link
to the Questionnaire is here:
http://www.303rdbga.com/membership.html
Fill in the questionnaire as best you can for the former 303rd
Member, either living or dead. I probably should have expained it
better in the instructions.
Sorry about the CD delay, but I'm sure you'd rather wait a bit longer
than to sacrifice the accuracy.
> I guess this is mainly a question for Gary Moncur, or Harry Gobrecht or Ed Miller, but
> I thought that the other list readers might be interested in the answer, so I'm posting
> the question.
> I just noticed in the what's new section of the 303rdbga web page, a request for
> members and family of members to fill out a biographical questionnair. The header on
> the questionnair states that the biography might become part of the upcoming CDROM.
>
> I guess my main question is, does this mean that production of the CDROM will be
> delayed? I've been anxiously awaiting the CDROM, which I had assumed would be
> coming out very shortly, but if there is any chance of this biographical information
> being included, I don't see how it can be produced on schedule. I'd really hope that
> this information be saved for a future CD. Anyway, when is the CD expected to be
> shipped?
>
> It is also not clear whether and how family of deceased members can fill out the
> form. Should family just put in whatever info is known, and stories as we heard them?
>
> Thanks
- Gary - Webmaster, 303rd Bomb Group Association
http://www.303rdBGA.com
http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird
From lcoleman@rmci.net Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:37:00 -0700
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:37:00 -0700
From: Loyd Coleman lcoleman@rmci.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Lloyd Coleman
The info will help.
I am a native of Idaho ,and live 30 miles from Boise. I
flew my 30 missions out of Molesworth from Nov.6 --Mar.15
Loyd
From wejones@megalink.net Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:48:14 -0500
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:48:14 -0500
From: Bill Jones wejones@megalink.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] questionnair
> Bill - and everyone,
> Bad news first - yes, the CD is being delayed. ..........
:-( I'll have to figure out one more XMAS present now. :-)
> ..... The missions are all
> completed, but some problems were discovered during the
> proofreading. From what I understand, many of the mission
> records have discrepiences between the formation flown and the
> crew loading lists. Some crews on the loading lists were not shown
> in the formation diagram, and vice versa. Also, some of the aircraft
> were shown differently on different records. Those records now
> have to be looked at again to determine the correct crews and
> aircraft.
I can understand that. I've seen differences between the 2 sets of microfilm I have
(ie squadron records vs group records), so it seemed likely that there would be
conflicts. Sounds like a big job to figure out which is correct? As you say, the delay
is worth it to get more accurate information. However, I'd predict that in some cases it
might not be possible to tell which of 2 data sources is correct. In that case, it might
be nice to see both.
In any event, too bad the CDROM is delayed. I'm glad it wasn't because I was
bothering Ed with E-mail messages though.
*****************************************************************
*Bill Jones N3JLQ Sweden Maine *
* wejones@megalink.net *
* Main home page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones *
* WWII/B-17 page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO page http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html *
* TVRO HAM RADIO WWII/B-17 SPACE WX *
*****************************************************************
From palidin@netzero.net Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:04:37 -0500
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:04:37 -0500
From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
My dad taught me this song when I was knee high to him. I remember the
tune and some of the lyrics. I heard it again the other night while
watching the moviie "12:00 High", (or at least I think I did). Can any
of you fellows remember the whole song? Who wrote it? Does it exist on
any known sound track? Lloyd Grant, SO a 427th. { It evokes some
inexplicable memories for me.} Thanks. G.
____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________
Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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From OLDBLACKMAGIC@webtv.net Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:42:43 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:42:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Louis Grandwilliams OLDBLACKMAGIC@webtv.net
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
Lloyd, it brings back memories. I can remember---"bless them all, bless
them all, the long, the short, and the tall. No icecream or cookies for
flat-footed rookies, so cheer up my boys, bless them all."
Maybe this will fill in some of the missing lyrics. I know there are a
lot more.
From Bhandsr@aol.com Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:33:27 EST
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:33:27 EST
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
The thing that added most to the mystique of "Bless 'em all, the long and the
short and the tall...." was that it was sung in "echo chamber"......very
very reminiscent! Cheers, Bob Hand
From Bhandsr@aol.com Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:40:20 EST
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:40:20 EST
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
Bless 'em all, bless 'em all, the long the short and the tall,
Bless all the blondies and all the brunettes,
Each one is lucky to take what he gets
But we're saying goodbye to them all,
As back to the barracks we fall...........I can remember this, but can't
imagine where I left my %%%$@# sunglasses. Cheers, Bob Hand
From Bhandsr@aol.com Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:07:18 EST
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:07:18 EST
From: Bhandsr@aol.com Bhandsr@aol.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
Speaking of which, "That Old Black Magic" was a wonderful piece of music
that came around in 1943....was it Bob Eberley who sang it? Also "Sleepy
Lagoon" and of course the MIller and Dorsey stuff and "Opus #1". The thing
is, you can still remember the words....from a time when music was music.
Cheers, Bob Hand
From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:12:46 -0600
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:12:46 -0600
From: Kevin Pearson kpearson@saintjoseph.com
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
My personal favorits from the era are:
Shoo Shoo Baby
Pennsylvania Six Five Thousand
Stomping at the Savoy
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Bhandsr@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:58 AM
To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The long and the short and the tall...
Speaking of which, "That Old Black Magic" was a wonderful piece of music
that came around in 1943....was it Bob Eberley who sang it? Also "Sleepy
Lagoon" and of course the MIller and Dorsey stuff and "Opus #1". The thing
is, you can still remember the words....from a time when music was music.
Cheers, Bob Hand
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