From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:05:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:05:21 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Hi Fellas: I'm new to this forum and was asked to tell you a bit about myself. Well, here goes. I'm 43 and for as long as I can remember, I have been facinated with the B-17. I could legally fly airplanes before I could legally drive cars. One of my instructors was a waist gunner on a 390th BG(H) Fort at Parnham (Framlingham), Oran Laourer. He never talked to me about the war, but he sparks my curiosity when I would overhear him talking to other vets that hung out at the airport. In 1991 I sat down for a root beer float at Lou's Drive Inn in Peoria Illinois. I am attaching a story about my first flight in a B-17. It has been published in several 8th AF newsletters, you might have seen it. The owner of Lou's Drive Inn, Louis LaHood (2Lt., Pilot of Lassie Come Home, 42-31673, 322nd BS, 91st BG, May to June of 44) talked me into writing my first book. In 1998 and 1999, I went to Germany to find Lou LaHood's B-17, Lassie Come Home, s/n 42-31673, that was shot down over Deiderode, Germany, on 16.8.44 by fighters. There were six Fortresses lost from the 324th BS (Lassie was assigned to the 324th that day) of the 91st BG(H), and I have found the crash sites of three. I've found about 200 pounds of exploded ammo, CO2 containers from Mae Wests, parts of flak vests, and hundreds of other pieces. (All of this was restored to museum quality standards and will soon be on display at the Tower Museum in Bassingbourn.) Ok, ok, enough about the 91st. When I went to England on business in 1997, I had the weekend free and could have gone anywhere in Europe. But I elected to go to Bassingbourn - Lou's old base. Going there was incredible! I knew I would have to return to see other bases. When I got back to the States, I found out how difficult it was to get information on the former 8th Air Force heavy bomber bases as I was planning my next airfield visits. I soon decided to write a field guide for visiting the old stations - history of each, photos of the base then and now, the memorials, Ordinance survey maps showing locations, property owners, pubs and churches having memoribilia from the war, and where to eat and where to stay. So, I have spent four weeks in the last two years visiting the old stations and photographing what still remains. Ok, ok, yes, Airfields of the Eighth by Freeman and One Last Look sound similar, but Airfields of the Eighth was published in 1979 and is woefully outdated, and One Last Look does not tell a person what he needs to know to visit the old stations. I've been to 42 of the stations, all 8th AF heavy bases, from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ADs. Because so much of the strategic bombing campaign was governed by the ground offensive after D-Day, I have been studying the land war too. I've been to the Normany beach head, the V-1 and V-2 laund sites at Calais, the Cologne Cathedral, the Ludendorf Bridge at Remagen, the submarine pens at Kiel, and the FAG Kugelfischer Georg Schafer Company (ball bearings) at Schweinfurt. Last year I spent a week with two Dutch Resistance fighters who gave me a personal tour of all of the battlefields and bridges associated with Operation Market Garden. Spectacular! (To walk across the bridges at Arnhem and Nijmegen was awesome!) And next April, I'm doing Battle of the Bulge sites - Hurtgen Forest, Aachen, Bastogne, Malmedy, etc. I am secretary of the Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing of the Eighth Air Force Historical Society and publish our state chapter's newsletter - The Rally Point. I was also voted an honory life member of the national Eighth Air Force Historical Society by its board for all of the work I have done for them. And I want all of you to know I have never taken one thin dime for all of the work I have done for the men of the Eighth. I feel very strongly that I should not profit from what 26,000 men paid for with their lives. I get 20 to 30 letters a week from people researching planes, missions and men. I answer all of them. If any of you are heading across the pond and want to know other bases to visit, let me know. I have everything you would need. Now a question: Was The Fox in business during the war, and do any of you have any specific memories of your time there? I had lunch there after visiting with Brian McGuire and Molesworth. (And I would love to do the hangar dance that is done from time to time for you 303rdsters!) Well, that's it fellas. I'm very pleased to be part of your chat group. Kevin M. Pearson 2514 W. Woodland St. Joseph, MO 64506 Phone: 800.748.7856 816.232.4461 Fax: 816.364.4873 e-mail: kpearson@saintjoseph.com From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:36:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:36:22 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past A Flight Into The Past By: Kevin M. Pearson - 1992 The crisp, morning air in Midland, Texas, was abruptly broken by the thunderous, deep-throated roar of four, 1200 horsepower Wright Cyclone engines, belonging to the B-17 Flying Fortress named "Texas Raiders." Each engine coughed, sputtered and belched large quantities of blue, oil-laden exhaust as each of the nine cylinder Cyclones, one by one, roared to life with a sound reminiscent of a time long past. It all started in the summer of 1991 when I sat down for a root beer float at Lou's Drive-In in Peoria, Illinois. On that day, I was wearing a cap bearing the letters and numerals "B-17G" and a T-shirt with a picture of a B-17 Flying Fortress on it. The owner of Lou's Drive-In, Louis LaHood, came up to me and asked in a skeptical and somewhat sarcastic tone what a young guy like me knew about the B-17 Flying Fortress. Lou had been a pilot with the Eighth Army Air Force, 91st Bombardment Group (Heavy) and had flown 30 combat missions over occupied Europe during World War II. We spent the rest of that day discussing such things as manual versus automatic turbo-supercharging, the magnetic flux-gate compass, stratospheric flight characteristics, and, of course, the inherent advantages and disadvantages of the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress versus its major rival, the Consolidated B-24 Liberator. During our conversation, I told Lou I was writing a book about this remarkable aircraft and this is what he said to me, "Before you can ever write a book about the B-17, you have to fly on one. No other plane flies quite like the 17." I took his advice to heart and contacted the Confederate Air Force (CAF) museum in Midland, Texas, and after several months, received permission for both Lou and myself to fly on their B-17, affectionately known as "The Raiders." My photographer and I arrived in Midland at 10:00 p.m. on the night of March 28, 1992. We had been on the road since 6:00 a.m. that morning but before checking into our motel, before even eating dinner, we were overpowered by the urge to go to CAF Headquarters and see the "Fort." There was a certain magnetism in the air, something drawing us to the Fortress, a force so strong that we both had but one purpose and that was to see the B-17. We walked into the main hangar at CAF Headquarters and were immediately greeted by the sounds of "Chattanooga Choo Choo," a wartime classic originally sung by Frances Langford in 1942. A party was in progress - one of many hosted by the CAF each year. There were many people in the hangar, some sitting, some standing, some dancing, their voices echoing in a muffled staccato in the vast and cavernous expanses of the hangar. I gazed about and saw a multitude of World War II aircraft. The air was thick with the smell of high-octane aviation fuel and other assorted olfactory delights common only to a place where aircraft are stored. In the background I could hear the lead vocalist singing, "There's gonna be a special someone at the station, satin and lace, I use to call funny face." To my left was an F-82, a Siamese twin version of the P-51 Mustang, to my right a German ME-109. Straight ahead was "FiFi," a Boeing B-29 Superfortress with all four engines detached from their nacelles, obviously undergoing what we in the aviation community call an annual. Where was the B-17? She wasn't in the hangar. Then, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted her and the distinctive shape of her Plexiglas nose. She was parked outside of the hangar on the "hardstand." The expansive hangar doors were only partially cracked, exposing only a frontal view of the fuselage. We began walking towards the "Fort" as the band started its rendition of Glenn Miller's "Little Brown Jug." Actually our walk simulated a gallop, and the closer we got to the "Fort," the faster our strides became. I could hear one gentleman in the background, somewhat inebriated from the nights festivities, bellowing, "And there we were at 24,000 feet, one engine feathered and one on fire, when we began pitching like this and we started going down," (he made an arching motion with his hand) his story becoming inaudible as we breezed past him. We had walked into a time warp. Certainly I must be having a dream. We walked right by security, right by the band and slipped out through the hangar doors. There she was in all of her splendor, silhouetted by the glare of the hangar lights. We just stood there, mouths wide open and stared up in amazed delight. Before us was this huge, four-engine behemoth of an airplane, the type of plane I had studied for the better part of the last fifteen years. We walked around her, peering into every window, sliding our hands over her smooth control surfaces until it seemed like we studied every rivet on that plane. We spent the next hour just hanging around that old bird. I felt a sense of awe just being in the presence of this time machine, a machine that had helped accomplish so much during those dark days of 1943 and 1945. The next day we met Lou, who was flying in from Peoria, then with the Flight Operations Coordinator of the Confederate Air Force. We received our flight instructions - we would fly the next day and could spend the rest of this day photographing the Fortress inside and out. We grabbed our equipment and headed for the hangar. The Fort was still outside, basking in the warm spring sunshine. We rounded the corner of the hangar and Lou spotted her for the first time. His eyes widened and in the two year I had know Lou, he uttered the first obscenity I had ever heard. He said, "Well, I'll be damned!" Watching Lou crawl through "his" plane was one of the most unique and interesting experiences of my life. He spoke of his six foot tail-gunner, Robert Megechelson, and how his tail-gunner had "really wanted" that position; about the relief tube in the cockpit, how, if a pilot forgot to notify the ball-turret gunner of the impending flow, the ball turret's windows would freeze, rendering the turret useless. We discussed frontal attacks by enemy fighters, the oxygen system and the time Lou's crew had to "hit the silk" when the landing gear on his B-17 wouldn't fully extend. Lou was such a unique fellow. I envyed and respected this man in the same way I envyed and respected my own father. Sharing Lou's stories about the war and what the war had meant to him, I felt for a brief time closer to Lou than my own father, a sort of camaraderie unique to a person who has never experienced war. After much hero worship and rhetoric on my part, I finally realized that Lou was just the typical airman of the 8th AAF. He did not consider himself a hero, nor did he consider what he did anything out of the ordinary. As he once said, "We did what we had to do at the time; we never thought about the danger." It's 4:30 a.m. and I am already awake, not that I slept any during the night. I sit up on the side of my bed, turn on the light, grab the telephone and dial Midland/Odessa Flight Service. The station operator answers, and I inquire as to the weather along our designated flight path. The operator responds with, "Cloudy and broken at 10,000, winds 274 degrees at 15 knots, gusting to 20." Perfect, no fronts, we'll fly today. We arrive at the hangar at 5:30 a.m. and go inside to meet the rest of the crew. Pat, the pilot, hands us an insurance waiver and asks for our signature. In a nutshell, the waiver states we won't sue him or the CAF in the event we are killed or maimed during the flight. I pull out a pen and ink my name before even reading the document. My adrenaline is flowing at full throttle. Pat informs us we may move about the plane once we are airborne, yet cautions there are many rough edges in the plane and air turbulence is unpredictable - so be careful. He also indicates the location of air sick bags and ear plugs. We board the B-17 from the waist hatch. Lou and I climb to the nose of the aircraft. I'm think to myself, this isn't real, this isn't happening. My mind is racing and can not yet comprehend that a lifelong dream is about to come true. I feel as if I am out of my body looking down at this young guy and this old guy crawling through this 50 year old aircraft. I look out through the Plexiglas nose and see the fire tender, holding a rather large fire extinguisher, I mentally note, and hear him say in a muffled voice, "Start one first, Pat!." I look to my left and see the port outboard engine, engine #1, slowly turning over. "9 blades, mags on, mesh and start!," I hear the copilot as he instructs Pat on starting procedure. The engine catches and roars to life. The fire tender holds up two fingers. I see his lips move but can't hear him over the roar of the first engine. I see the inboard port engine, #2, turning over. Blue smoke pours from the exhaust manifold waste gate. For an instant I wonder if we are on fire. I turn and look out the starboard window in time to see engine #4 firing up. All four of the Hamilton Standard, three-bladed, constant speed, variable pitch propellers are turning in unison, and I am absolutely overwhelmed by the blaring roar of the engines, even though I know the engines are at an idle speed. The thick, acrid smell of burnt engine oil and high-octane av gas permeates every crevice of the plane's interior. The plane is vibrating so much that I can barely steady my video camera. A high pitched whine can be heard over the steady drone of the engines, and I realize the pilot is cycling the flaps up and down in a pre-takeoff test. The plane lurches forward as the pilot releases those damn squeeky brakes. (Boeing never could make an aircraft withour squeeky brakes!) We swing off of the tarmac and onto a taxiway, the Fortress gently rocking and swaying over the bumps and dips in the taxiway, as the bright Texas sunshine pours through every opening in the nose of the plane. I feel a trickle of sweat pouring down my neck and am surprised because I am not hot. We reach the threshold of the active runway from which we will be departing and swing the nose of the plane into the wind. One by one the pilot runs up each engine to 1600 RPM. With each engine acceleration, the plane bucks and vibrates, wanting to leave the binding force of Earth's gravity behind. The pilot runs up number 3 and 4 together. The high pitched roar of the two Cyclones is music to my ears; no other sound in this world can ever simulate the deep-throated, guttural roar of a 1200 horse power Wright Cyclone at full throttle. Lou turns to me a says , "Can you imagine 30 B-17s lining up on a runway?" In a far off place in my mind I hear myself answer, "I've seen it in the movies but can't imagine it in real life!" "The way it was!" Lou yells back. We start rolling towards the active runway. The pilot turns the lumbering Fort so that the nose is pointed straight down the white-stripped centerline. The airplane pauses for just a moment and then, slowly, the pilot accelerates all four engines. I hear Lou, now yelling at the top of his voice, "He's got to go 110 before he can get up!" The sound from the engines begins as a dull roar and progresses to an outright, ear deafening, rhythmic scream. The force of acceleration momentarily causes me to loose my balance, and I almost fall off of the bombardiers platform. We are rolling. (I secretly imagine we a taking off from an ancient, weed-choked runway in the swirling mist of the North Sea, laden with five 1,000 pounders, destined for the ball-bearing works at Schweinfurt.) I am pointing my video camera down the end of the runway. We are moving faster and faster. I'm hearing the tires clicking over the expansion joints in the runway. The white striped centerline is now looking like a continuous white line. The massive wings are slowly becoming airborne. I feel a sudden jerk, the plane swings 15 degrees into the wind, and I realize we are off the ground. A life long dream has come true. I turn around and point my video camera out the starboard window. Those magnificent Wright Cyclones have come into an element all their own. I see the runway growing smaller and smaller and can see the airport dropping away in the distance. I hear the pilot throttling back and synchronizing the engines. I'm thinking to myself, I'm in seventh heaven, it can't get any better than this! I turn and look closely at Lou for the first time since taking off. The plane starts a steep bank, and I quickly look out of the side window and see the port wing dipping below the horizon. Lou is staring straight ahead with an intense, yet far off look in his eyes. I can tell by the expression on his face, that for him, he is again a twenty-four year old bomber pilot winging his way eastward for yet another bombing raid on the crumbling remains of the Third Reich. For Lou, the clock has turned back 47 years. For a brief moment I transcend time. I see the well-groomed and manicured landscape of the English Midlands racing below us; the steep, contrasting walls of the White Cliffs of Dover; and white caps dancing on the English Channel. I wonder what it must have been like to see thousands (yes, thousands) of heavy bombers popping through the early morning cloud cover, lining up on designated Splasher beacons for force assembly. What was it like to see the first vapor trails streaming from your ship as you climbed to your best operational altitude? Mostly, I wonder what it was like to have hundreds of German fighters and thousands of German flak batteries trying to knock you out of the sky. (Lou once described this feeling as walking totally naked down a very busy highway. Think about it.) I videotape every possible component of this remarkable aircraft during our 2 1/2 hour flight to San Antonio. I speak with the pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer. Before I know it, the flight is almost over, as the canal running through downtown San Antonio looms in the distance. An airshow is in progress, and I see CAF's B-25, "Yellow Rose," escorting us off of our starboard wing. After landing, we taxi to our assigned parking area, stop, and power down all four engines. Even though the engines have stopped, I can still hear their monotonous throbbing echoing in my almost deaf ears. One of the ground personnel opens the nose hatch, and wanting to look "cool" to the many bystanders like Steve McQueen in the movie the War Lover, I casually swing out of the nose hatch and drop six feet to the ground. A resounding applause rises from the crowd, and I shed my best "awe shucks" expression. So this is what it was like to fly on the "Queen," the "Queen of the Skies." No other airplane is as great and graceful in flight and it is no small wonder that large crowds gather wherever she lands, why cars and trucks screech to a stop in an effort to catch but just a glimpse of this awesome machine. She is a rich part of our history, our heritage, a flying monument for all those who fought and died over enemy skies to keep this county free. ***** From MSargeM@aol.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:43:43 EDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:43:43 EDT From: MSargeM@aol.com MSargeM@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs Hi Gary, Looks like the 303rd digest will be a a hit. My name is Morton Moon And the assist crew chief of the Knockout Dropper. Wonder if any ground troops are on the internet as I dont recall seeing any names. Mort Moon From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:46:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:46:10 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Rules of the Air Rules of the Air 1. Every take-off is optional. Every landing is mandatory. 2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, the houses get smaller. This is, unless you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then the houses get bigger again. 3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous. 4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here. 5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire. 6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot sweating. 7. When in doubt, hold onto your altitude. No one has ever collided with the sky. 8. A "good" landing is one from which you can walk away. A "great" landing is one after which they can use the plane again. 9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself. 10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to taxi to the ramp. 11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and vice versa. 12. Never let your airplane take you somewhere you brain didn't get to five minutes earlier. 13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable sources also report that mountains have also been known to hide in clouds. 14. Always try to keep the number of take-offs you make equal to the number of landings. 15. There are three very simple rules for making a smooth landing. Only problem is no one knows what they are. 16. You start the game with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag with experience before you empty the bag of luck. 17. Helicopters can't fly. Yes, it's true. They are just so ugly, the Earth naturally repels them. 18. If all you can see out the windows is ground that's going around and around, and all you hear is commotion coming from the back of the plane, all is not as it should be. 19. In the ongoing battle between aluminum objects going hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the ground has yet to loose. 20. Good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience comes from bad judgement. 21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much as possible. 22. Keep looking around. There's always something you missed. 23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it is not subject to repeal. 24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above him, the runway behind him, and a tenth of a second ago. >From Kevin Pearson, a pilot who has been flying so long that when he started, flying was considered dangerous and sex was considered safe. From westwind@candw.ky Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:55:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:55:40 -0500 From: Georgia McSorley westwind@candw.ky Subject: [303rd-Talk] RE: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #2 - 17 msgs Arni L. Sumarlidason here. I was a co-Pilot in Frank (Suki) Thompsons crew, then took over Beneke's crew in 1942-43. -----Original Message----- From: 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdbga.com [mailto:303rd-Talk-admin@303rdbga.com] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 2:35 PM To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Subject: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #2 - 17 msgs Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com You can reach the person managing the list at 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs (AMS303@aol.com) 2. Re: Introductions (Jim Walling) 3. Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs (Wmjdallas@aol.com) 4. Re: Introductions (D Hayworth) 5. Re: Introductions (Gary Moncur) 6. re:I am. (Edward L Frank) 7. Re; 303rd talk (tmays) 8. Greetings (Jprencher@aol.com) 9. Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs (B17GSparks@aol.com) 10. Re: Introductions (WCarter516@aol.com) 11. Re: Introductions (WCarter516@aol.com) 12. RE: Introductions (allen@texasdirect.com) 13. Re: Introductions (IBSPEC@aol.com) 14. Could be ? (Dyle Davidson) 15. Just landed on the list. (Hollritt, Todd) 16. Hi Fellas: (kpearson@saintjoseph.com) 17. Flight Into The Past (kpearson@saintjoseph.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: AMS303@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:48:53 EDT To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs In a message dated 7/30/2000 7:51:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com writes: << Re: I >> --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:17:44 -1000 To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com From: Jim Walling Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Hi, I'm Jim Walling. I was the ball turret gunner for Lt. Godberlet's crew in the 358th Squadron. We flew our first mission on 26nov44 and our 35th on 20Mar45. My cousin, Glen Walling, flew With Lt. Mauger in a lead crew and was shot down and killed over Czechoslovakia on the last mission the 303rd flew in the war. My best to all> Jim --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Wmjdallas@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:51:30 EDT To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs I'm William J (Bill) Dallas, copilot on the Charles Mars crew shot down near St. Omer, France on March 26, 1944. POW for rest of War at Stalag Luft I, Barth, Germany. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "D Hayworth" To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:08:17 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Hello! I'm Major Doug Hayworth and I'm a maintenance officer with the Oklahoma Air National Guard (C-130's). I'm a WWII (B-17) history enthusiast and was privileged to provide the color guard at the 303rd reunion in OKC. I've done some research into 303rd members buried in military cemeteries in Europe and have a complete list available. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Moncur To: <303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 2:42 PM Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introductions > Looks like we're off to a pretty good start with 303rd-Talk. There > are about 45 members signed up thus far. About half have > selected the digest rather than regular mail. Right now it appears > that the digest is not working - or is at least delayed in being sent > out. It that remains a problem, I'll have to make some changes. > > Since all I see are email addresses, some of which are pretty > cryptic, would everyone please reply to this and give a short > introduction so we all can tell who is here? > > I'm Gary Moncur, son of Vern L. Moncur 359th pilot. He passed > away in 1985. > > Regards, > > - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster > 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird > > _______________________________________________ > 303rd-Talk mailing list > 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk > --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gary Moncur" Organization: 303rd BGA To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:32:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Welcome, Doug, I believe our historian Harry Gobrecht has that list. When he sees this we can make sure. > Hello! I'm Major Doug Hayworth and I'm a maintenance officer with the > Oklahoma Air National Guard (C-130's). I'm a WWII (B-17) history > enthusiast and was privileged to provide the color guard at the 303rd > reunion in OKC. I've done some research into 303rd members buried in > military cemeteries in Europe and have a complete list available. - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:41:41 -0400 To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com From: Edward L Frank Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] re:I am. Hello, I am Edward L. Frank, Reading,PA. My Uncle, John P Millek, 303rdBG, 359 Sqd. T/G. Lt.Patrick H. Brabant Crew. His nick name was JP, Passed away 1988. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "tmays" To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:54:50 -0500 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009E_01BFFA79.2A771FA0" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re; 303rd talk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BFFA79.2A771FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi- I am Tom Mays. I flew waist gunner for 27 missions and finished up = in the ball.=20 Harry Gobrecht was my pilot and I might say a great one!! Wish everyone the best ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BFFA79.2A771FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi- I am Tom Mays. I flew waist gunner for 27 = missions and=20 finished up in the ball.
Harry Gobrecht was my pilot and I might say a great=20 one!!
 
Wish everyone the best
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BFFA79.2A771FA0-- --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Jprencher@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:00:00 EDT To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings Hi Gang: I was in the 358th during 1944 as a pilot and copilot. I flew about half my missions as copilot on the Werner G. Goering crew and the other half as pilot. I flew several missions as check pilot with new crews on their first mission so I might have flown your first mission with some of you. You can tell if I was flying as we usually bounced 3 to 6 times when we landed. I got to practice several landings that way with each final, but we landed back in England at least once on every one of the 35. Sometimes though the poor old birds we got back in went to the scrap pile I fear. We never aborted so they were always in good shape when we left and I've always been grateful to you fellows who worked all night to get them that way. Best Wishes, Jack Rencher Jprencher@AOL.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: B17GSparks@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:09:51 EDT To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #1 - 32 msgs Hi Gary; My name is Ray Calenberg. I flew my 35 missions as radio operator in the 358th squadron in the B-17 we named Henn's Revenge. This is an excellent piece of work you are doing for the "happy warriors" ..... Thanks very much. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: WCarter516@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:04:25 EDT Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com I am Bill Carter, Ball turret gunner on Joe Gordon's crew intially, later Neil Cunningham's crew-358th, 35 missions, Dec 1944 to late Apr 1945 at Molesworth. Retired and live in Ames, IA --__--__-- Message: 11 From: WCarter516@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:07:54 EDT Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Jim-I think we met at Molesworth, Iwas a BT gunner on Neil Cunningham's ccrew in the 358th, the mission to Pilsen was my 35th. Bill Carter --__--__-- Message: 12 From: allen@texasdirect.com To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:01:04 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Greetings, Thanks for putting this together. My name is Allen Miller. My dad passed away in 1988. His name was H.Clifton Miller, T/Sgt., 359th, engineer/gunner with the 1st crew of the "Sweet LaRhonda" He was about 34 years old when he was flying combat, and I think at one time he said that he might have been the oldest man in the group flying combat at that particular time. I have a few pictures that could be of interest to other folks and will try to get them scanned soon. He kept a few comments regarding each of his 35 missions on paper tags attached to bomb arming pins, probably one of my most prized possessions. -----Original Message----- From: 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com [mailto:303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Gary Moncur Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:39 AM To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Looks like we're off to a pretty good start with 303rd-Talk. There are about 45 members signed up thus far. About half have selected the digest rather than regular mail. Right now it appears that the digest is not working - or is at least delayed in being sent out. It that remains a problem, I'll have to make some changes. Since all I see are email addresses, some of which are pretty cryptic, would everyone please reply to this and give a short introduction so we all can tell who is here? I'm Gary Moncur, son of Vern L. Moncur 359th pilot. He passed away in 1985. Regards, - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird _______________________________________________ 303rd-Talk mailing list 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk --__--__-- Message: 13 From: IBSPEC@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:23:19 EDT Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Introductions To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com i am donald o."SPEC" campen,jr. of 427th and only living member of pilot lonski's crew. am a prime cheer leader to get eligible persons to join our bga. . thanks be to god that we have such a dedicated able and willing gary moncur of this creative web site and the wisdom of our officers and board that inspires our participation herein. ibspec@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: jody53@webtv.net (Dyle Davidson) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Could be ? --WebTV-Mail-13311-2165 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello Jim Wallin----My name is Dyle Davidson, a gunner in the 359th. On January 23rd 1945, I flew 'bastard' on Warren Maugher's crew. We were shot up pretty bad and didn't make it home. We spent a week or so, on the continent before we could get back to England.I am assuming, Glen flew that day and I'm sure as my fading memory serves me----Glen's crew and I had a good time, one of the highlights of my war ! Can you confirm any of this ? Dyle Davidson --WebTV-Mail-13311-2165 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit GOD BLESS AMERICA ! --WebTV-Mail-13311-2165-- --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Hollritt, Todd" To: "'303rd-talk@303rdbga.com'" <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:00:54 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Just landed on the list. Hello all, Just landed on the list. My name is Todd Hollritt son of Alfred K. Hollritt 303BG (H) 427th SQ. Dad arrived in Molesworth April 1944 and finished his tour October 1944. He was a Ball Turret gunner on the Lt. Charles E. Johnson crew (You can see two crew photos at 303rdbga.com web page). Late in his tour Dad was assigned to the "Path Finder" H2X radar equipped B-17Gs that were stationed at Chelveston with the 305th BG (H). Dad is doing great at 77, Along with my Brother Barry and I he made his first trip back to Molesworth last September and returned again with the 303rd Bomb Group last month for the Hanger Dance and Memorial Dedication. We also toured a huge chunk of 1st and 2nd Air Division bases in England as well as the Duxford air Museum, The RAF museum at Hendon and the city of London and the Cottswold's. And we visited every Pub along the way! :o) Todd- --__--__-- Message: 16 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com To: <303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:05:21 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Hi Fellas: I'm new to this forum and was asked to tell you a bit about myself. Well, here goes. I'm 43 and for as long as I can remember, I have been facinated with the B-17. I could legally fly airplanes before I could legally drive cars. One of my instructors was a waist gunner on a 390th BG(H) Fort at Parnham (Framlingham), Oran Laourer. He never talked to me about the war, but he sparks my curiosity when I would overhear him talking to other vets that hung out at the airport. In 1991 I sat down for a root beer float at Lou's Drive Inn in Peoria Illinois. I am attaching a story about my first flight in a B-17. It has been published in several 8th AF newsletters, you might have seen it. The owner of Lou's Drive Inn, Louis LaHood (2Lt., Pilot of Lassie Come Home, 42-31673, 322nd BS, 91st BG, May to June of 44) talked me into writing my first book. In 1998 and 1999, I went to Germany to find Lou LaHood's B-17, Lassie Come Home, s/n 42-31673, that was shot down over Deiderode, Germany, on 16.8.44 by fighters. There were six Fortresses lost from the 324th BS (Lassie was assigned to the 324th that day) of the 91st BG(H), and I have found the crash sites of three. I've found about 200 pounds of exploded ammo, CO2 containers from Mae Wests, parts of flak vests, and hundreds of other pieces. (All of this was restored to museum quality standards and will soon be on display at the Tower Museum in Bassingbourn.) Ok, ok, enough about the 91st. When I went to England on business in 1997, I had the weekend free and could have gone anywhere in Europe. But I elected to go to Bassingbourn - Lou's old base. Going there was incredible! I knew I would have to return to see other bases. When I got back to the States, I found out how difficult it was to get information on the former 8th Air Force heavy bomber bases as I was planning my next airfield visits. I soon decided to write a field guide for visiting the old stations - history of each, photos of the base then and now, the memorials, Ordinance survey maps showing locations, property owners, pubs and churches having memoribilia from the war, and where to eat and where to stay. So, I have spent four weeks in the last two years visiting the old stations and photographing what still remains. Ok, ok, yes, Airfields of the Eighth by Freeman and One Last Look sound similar, but Airfields of the Eighth was published in 1979 and is woefully outdated, and One Last Look does not tell a person what he needs to know to visit the old stations. I've been to 42 of the stations, all 8th AF heavy bases, from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ADs. Because so much of the strategic bombing campaign was governed by the ground offensive after D-Day, I have been studying the land war too. I've been to the Normany beach head, the V-1 and V-2 laund sites at Calais, the Cologne Cathedral, the Ludendorf Bridge at Remagen, the submarine pens at Kiel, and the FAG Kugelfischer Georg Schafer Company (ball bearings) at Schweinfurt. Last year I spent a week with two Dutch Resistance fighters who gave me a personal tour of all of the battlefields and bridges associated with Operation Market Garden. Spectacular! (To walk across the bridges at Arnhem and Nijmegen was awesome!) And next April, I'm doing Battle of the Bulge sites - Hurtgen Forest, Aachen, Bastogne, Malmedy, etc. I am secretary of the Missouri Chapter/St. Louis Wing of the Eighth Air Force Historical Society and publish our state chapter's newsletter - The Rally Point. I was also voted an honory life member of the national Eighth Air Force Historical Society by its board for all of the work I have done for them. And I want all of you to know I have never taken one thin dime for all of the work I have done for the men of the Eighth. I feel very strongly that I should not profit from what 26,000 men paid for with their lives. I get 20 to 30 letters a week from people researching planes, missions and men. I answer all of them. If any of you are heading across the pond and want to know other bases to visit, let me know. I have everything you would need. Now a question: Was The Fox in business during the war, and do any of you have any specific memories of your time there? I had lunch there after visiting with Brian McGuire and Molesworth. (And I would love to do the hangar dance that is done from time to time for you 303rdsters!) Well, that's it fellas. I'm very pleased to be part of your chat group. Kevin M. Pearson 2514 W. Woodland St. Joseph, MO 64506 Phone: 800.748.7856 816.232.4461 Fax: 816.364.4873 e-mail: kpearson@saintjoseph.com --__--__-- Message: 17 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com To: <303rd-talk@303rdbga.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:36:22 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past A Flight Into The Past By: Kevin M. Pearson - 1992 The crisp, morning air in Midland, Texas, was abruptly broken by the thunderous, deep-throated roar of four, 1200 horsepower Wright Cyclone engines, belonging to the B-17 Flying Fortress named "Texas Raiders." Each engine coughed, sputtered and belched large quantities of blue, oil-laden exhaust as each of the nine cylinder Cyclones, one by one, roared to life with a sound reminiscent of a time long past. It all started in the summer of 1991 when I sat down for a root beer float at Lou's Drive-In in Peoria, Illinois. On that day, I was wearing a cap bearing the letters and numerals "B-17G" and a T-shirt with a picture of a B-17 Flying Fortress on it. The owner of Lou's Drive-In, Louis LaHood, came up to me and asked in a skeptical and somewhat sarcastic tone what a young guy like me knew about the B-17 Flying Fortress. Lou had been a pilot with the Eighth Army Air Force, 91st Bombardment Group (Heavy) and had flown 30 combat missions over occupied Europe during World War II. We spent the rest of that day discussing such things as manual versus automatic turbo-supercharging, the magnetic flux-gate compass, stratospheric flight characteristics, and, of course, the inherent advantages and disadvantages of the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress versus its major rival, the Consolidated B-24 Liberator. During our conversation, I told Lou I was writing a book about this remarkable aircraft and this is what he said to me, "Before you can ever write a book about the B-17, you have to fly on one. No other plane flies quite like the 17." I took his advice to heart and contacted the Confederate Air Force (CAF) museum in Midland, Texas, and after several months, received permission for both Lou and myself to fly on their B-17, affectionately known as "The Raiders." My photographer and I arrived in Midland at 10:00 p.m. on the night of March 28, 1992. We had been on the road since 6:00 a.m. that morning but before checking into our motel, before even eating dinner, we were overpowered by the urge to go to CAF Headquarters and see the "Fort." There was a certain magnetism in the air, something drawing us to the Fortress, a force so strong that we both had but one purpose and that was to see the B-17. We walked into the main hangar at CAF Headquarters and were immediately greeted by the sounds of "Chattanooga Choo Choo," a wartime classic originally sung by Frances Langford in 1942. A party was in progress - one of many hosted by the CAF each year. There were many people in the hangar, some sitting, some standing, some dancing, their voices echoing in a muffled staccato in the vast and cavernous expanses of the hangar. I gazed about and saw a multitude of World War II aircraft. The air was thick with the smell of high-octane aviation fuel and other assorted olfactory delights common only to a place where aircraft are stored. In the background I could hear the lead vocalist singing, "There's gonna be a special someone at the station, satin and lace, I use to call funny face." To my left was an F-82, a Siamese twin version of the P-51 Mustang, to my right a German ME-109. Straight ahead was "FiFi," a Boeing B-29 Superfortress with all four engines detached from their nacelles, obviously undergoing what we in the aviation community call an annual. Where was the B-17? She wasn't in the hangar. Then, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted her and the distinctive shape of her Plexiglas nose. She was parked outside of the hangar on the "hardstand." The expansive hangar doors were only partially cracked, exposing only a frontal view of the fuselage. We began walking towards the "Fort" as the band started its rendition of Glenn Miller's "Little Brown Jug." Actually our walk simulated a gallop, and the closer we got to the "Fort," the faster our strides became. I could hear one gentleman in the background, somewhat inebriated from the nights festivities, bellowing, "And there we were at 24,000 feet, one engine feathered and one on fire, when we began pitching like this and we started going down," (he made an arching motion with his hand) his story becoming inaudible as we breezed past him. We had walked into a time warp. Certainly I must be having a dream. We walked right by security, right by the band and slipped out through the hangar doors. There she was in all of her splendor, silhouetted by the glare of the hangar lights. We just stood there, mouths wide open and stared up in amazed delight. Before us was this huge, four-engine behemoth of an airplane, the type of plane I had studied for the better part of the last fifteen years. We walked around her, peering into every window, sliding our hands over her smooth control surfaces until it seemed like we studied every rivet on that plane. We spent the next hour just hanging around that old bird. I felt a sense of awe just being in the presence of this time machine, a machine that had helped accomplish so much during those dark days of 1943 and 1945. The next day we met Lou, who was flying in from Peoria, then with the Flight Operations Coordinator of the Confederate Air Force. We received our flight instructions - we would fly the next day and could spend the rest of this day photographing the Fortress inside and out. We grabbed our equipment and headed for the hangar. The Fort was still outside, basking in the warm spring sunshine. We rounded the corner of the hangar and Lou spotted her for the first time. His eyes widened and in the two year I had know Lou, he uttered the first obscenity I had ever heard. He said, "Well, I'll be damned!" Watching Lou crawl through "his" plane was one of the most unique and interesting experiences of my life. He spoke of his six foot tail-gunner, Robert Megechelson, and how his tail-gunner had "really wanted" that position; about the relief tube in the cockpit, how, if a pilot forgot to notify the ball-turret gunner of the impending flow, the ball turret's windows would freeze, rendering the turret useless. We discussed frontal attacks by enemy fighters, the oxygen system and the time Lou's crew had to "hit the silk" when the landing gear on his B-17 wouldn't fully extend. Lou was such a unique fellow. I envyed and respected this man in the same way I envyed and respected my own father. Sharing Lou's stories about the war and what the war had meant to him, I felt for a brief time closer to Lou than my own father, a sort of camaraderie unique to a person who has never experienced war. After much hero worship and rhetoric on my part, I finally realized that Lou was just the typical airman of the 8th AAF. He did not consider himself a hero, nor did he consider what he did anything out of the ordinary. As he once said, "We did what we had to do at the time; we never thought about the danger." It's 4:30 a.m. and I am already awake, not that I slept any during the night. I sit up on the side of my bed, turn on the light, grab the telephone and dial Midland/Odessa Flight Service. The station operator answers, and I inquire as to the weather along our designated flight path. The operator responds with, "Cloudy and broken at 10,000, winds 274 degrees at 15 knots, gusting to 20." Perfect, no fronts, we'll fly today. We arrive at the hangar at 5:30 a.m. and go inside to meet the rest of the crew. Pat, the pilot, hands us an insurance waiver and asks for our signature. In a nutshell, the waiver states we won't sue him or the CAF in the event we are killed or maimed during the flight. I pull out a pen and ink my name before even reading the document. My adrenaline is flowing at full throttle. Pat informs us we may move about the plane once we are airborne, yet cautions there are many rough edges in the plane and air turbulence is unpredictable - so be careful. He also indicates the location of air sick bags and ear plugs. We board the B-17 from the waist hatch. Lou and I climb to the nose of the aircraft. I'm think to myself, this isn't real, this isn't happening. My mind is racing and can not yet comprehend that a lifelong dream is about to come true. I feel as if I am out of my body looking down at this young guy and this old guy crawling through this 50 year old aircraft. I look out through the Plexiglas nose and see the fire tender, holding a rather large fire extinguisher, I mentally note, and hear him say in a muffled voice, "Start one first, Pat!." I look to my left and see the port outboard engine, engine #1, slowly turning over. "9 blades, mags on, mesh and start!," I hear the copilot as he instructs Pat on starting procedure. The engine catches and roars to life. The fire tender holds up two fingers. I see his lips move but can't hear him over the roar of the first engine. I see the inboard port engine, #2, turning over. Blue smoke pours from the exhaust manifold waste gate. For an instant I wonder if we are on fire. I turn and look out the starboard window in time to see engine #4 firing up. All four of the Hamilton Standard, three-bladed, constant speed, variable pitch propellers are turning in unison, and I am absolutely overwhelmed by the blaring roar of the engines, even though I know the engines are at an idle speed. The thick, acrid smell of burnt engine oil and high-octane av gas permeates every crevice of the plane's interior. The plane is vibrating so much that I can barely steady my video camera. A high pitched whine can be heard over the steady drone of the engines, and I realize the pilot is cycling the flaps up and down in a pre-takeoff test. The plane lurches forward as the pilot releases those damn squeeky brakes. (Boeing never could make an aircraft withour squeeky brakes!) We swing off of the tarmac and onto a taxiway, the Fortress gently rocking and swaying over the bumps and dips in the taxiway, as the bright Texas sunshine pours through every opening in the nose of the plane. I feel a trickle of sweat pouring down my neck and am surprised because I am not hot. We reach the threshold of the active runway from which we will be departing and swing the nose of the plane into the wind. One by one the pilot runs up each engine to 1600 RPM. With each engine acceleration, the plane bucks and vibrates, wanting to leave the binding force of Earth's gravity behind. The pilot runs up number 3 and 4 together. The high pitched roar of the two Cyclones is music to my ears; no other sound in this world can ever simulate the deep-throated, guttural roar of a 1200 horse power Wright Cyclone at full throttle. Lou turns to me a says , "Can you imagine 30 B-17s lining up on a runway?" In a far off place in my mind I hear myself answer, "I've seen it in the movies but can't imagine it in real life!" "The way it was!" Lou yells back. We start rolling towards the active runway. The pilot turns the lumbering Fort so that the nose is pointed straight down the white-stripped centerline. The airplane pauses for just a moment and then, slowly, the pilot accelerates all four engines. I hear Lou, now yelling at the top of his voice, "He's got to go 110 before he can get up!" The sound from the engines begins as a dull roar and progresses to an outright, ear deafening, rhythmic scream. The force of acceleration momentarily causes me to loose my balance, and I almost fall off of the bombardiers platform. We are rolling. (I secretly imagine we a taking off from an ancient, weed-choked runway in the swirling mist of the North Sea, laden with five 1,000 pounders, destined for the ball-bearing works at Schweinfurt.) I am pointing my video camera down the end of the runway. We are moving faster and faster. I'm hearing the tires clicking over the expansion joints in the runway. The white striped centerline is now looking like a continuous white line. The massive wings are slowly becoming airborne. I feel a sudden jerk, the plane swings 15 degrees into the wind, and I realize we are off the ground. A life long dream has come true. I turn around and point my video camera out the starboard window. Those magnificent Wright Cyclones have come into an element all their own. I see the runway growing smaller and smaller and can see the airport dropping away in the distance. I hear the pilot throttling back and synchronizing the engines. I'm thinking to myself, I'm in seventh heaven, it can't get any better than this! I turn and look closely at Lou for the first time since taking off. The plane starts a steep bank, and I quickly look out of the side window and see the port wing dipping below the horizon. Lou is staring straight ahead with an intense, yet far off look in his eyes. I can tell by the expression on his face, that for him, he is again a twenty-four year old bomber pilot winging his way eastward for yet another bombing raid on the crumbling remains of the Third Reich. For Lou, the clock has turned back 47 years. For a brief moment I transcend time. I see the well-groomed and manicured landscape of the English Midlands racing below us; the steep, contrasting walls of the White Cliffs of Dover; and white caps dancing on the English Channel. I wonder what it must have been like to see thousands (yes, thousands) of heavy bombers popping through the early morning cloud cover, lining up on designated Splasher beacons for force assembly. What was it like to see the first vapor trails streaming from your ship as you climbed to your best operational altitude? Mostly, I wonder what it was like to have hundreds of German fighters and thousands of German flak batteries trying to knock you out of the sky. (Lou once described this feeling as walking totally naked down a very busy highway. Think about it.) I videotape every possible component of this remarkable aircraft during our 2 1/2 hour flight to San Antonio. I speak with the pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer. Before I know it, the flight is almost over, as the canal running through downtown San Antonio looms in the distance. An airshow is in progress, and I see CAF's B-25, "Yellow Rose," escorting us off of our starboard wing. After landing, we taxi to our assigned parking area, stop, and power down all four engines. Even though the engines have stopped, I can still hear their monotonous throbbing echoing in my almost deaf ears. One of the ground personnel opens the nose hatch, and wanting to look "cool" to the many bystanders like Steve McQueen in the movie the War Lover, I casually swing out of the nose hatch and drop six feet to the ground. A resounding applause rises from the crowd, and I shed my best "awe shucks" expression. So this is what it was like to fly on the "Queen," the "Queen of the Skies." No other airplane is as great and graceful in flight and it is no small wonder that large crowds gather wherever she lands, why cars and trucks screech to a stop in an effort to catch but just a glimpse of this awesome machine. She is a rich part of our history, our heritage, a flying monument for all those who fought and died over enemy skies to keep this county free. ***** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ 303rd-Talk mailing list 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk End of 303rd-Talk Digest_______________________________________________ 303rd-Talk mailing list 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk From FDBA3@aol.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:48:54 EDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:48:54 EDT From: FDBA3@aol.com FDBA3@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introductions Hello, I am Amy Hanbery grand-daughter of William A. Testoni who was in the three hunddred and fifty eighth. From IBSPEC@aol.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:54:37 EDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:54:37 EDT From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past ke4vin pearson, i for one thank you for sending your experience this past email. ibspec@aol.com From glm@xmission.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:06:28 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:06:28 -0700 From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past > > A Flight Into The Past > By: Kevin M. Pearson - 1992 > Kevin, That's quite a story. Thanks for posting it. I hope to fly in a B-17 someday. - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird From IBSPEC@aol.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:09:04 EDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:09:04 EDT From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past gary moncur. i thought you had done before. ibspec@aol.com From glm@xmission.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:11:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:11:23 -0700 From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Flight Into The Past > > gary moncur. i thought you had done before. ibspec@aol.com > Fly on a B-17? Never had the chance. I have climbed through a few of them, though. Maybe someday. - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird From gordy@saltspring.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:24:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:24:43 -0700 From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intros, Gordy Alton My name is Gordon Alton. I go by Gordy, and sometimes 'tailgunnerson'. I am a member of the 91st BGMA, the East Anglia Aviation Society, CombatVets, and the Luftwaffe Archives group. I live in British Columbia, Canada. I am 45, and my father, Donald Merle Alton, is a veteran of the 91st BG, 323d BS. He is still alive and lives here in Canada as well. I have studied the war all of my life, and have a pretty good background on most aspects of WWII. I do a little research on things concerning the 91st, the 8AF, and try to help others foster the cause of keeping the memory of those valiant men, and women, who fought in all services, to keep us free. I am the next generation after the vets, so it is a little easier for me to accept the veterans of both sides, Axis and Allied, who were all fighting for their respective countries. The time for hate, and revenge, is long gone. I like to think we can work worldwide to foster the greatness the preceding generation gave us as an example to follow. A lot of people gave the ultimate price for that end. Let's work hard to see they are not forgotten. Having said all that, this can be enjoyable and fun, as well. There is a lot of comraderie on the net, especially in the bomber community. I am proud to be associated with it, and all of you. Thanks for letting me be a part of this list. Gordy. From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:26:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:26:41 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intros, Gordy Alton Hi Gordy and the rest of you 303rdsters! In 1998 and 1999 I went to Germany an found the crash sites of three B-17s from the 91st BG, 324th BS lost to fighters on the 16.8.44 mission to Halle. I was really nervous going there. First I was traveling alone, and second, I did not know how the Germans would receive me. I was totally flabbergasted by their hospitality and how they bent over backwards to help me. The editor of the local paper, Matthias Heinzel, was my host and I asked him why all of the old Germans I interviewed were so nice and friendly. He said if it hadn't been for the United States, something like 3 million Germans would have frozen or starved to death following the war, and the older generation was extremely grateful for our generosity and how we treated German civilians with respect after the war. I guess the most important lesson I learned from my two digs in Germany was that the war is really over and there is no hostility left over from the war. Do most of the 303rd combat vets feel the same way? Kevin -----Original Message----- From: 303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com [mailto:303rd-Talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Alton Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 10:29 PM To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk List Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intros, Gordy Alton My name is Gordon Alton. I go by Gordy, and sometimes 'tailgunnerson'. I am a member of the 91st BGMA, the East Anglia Aviation Society, CombatVets, and the Luftwaffe Archives group. I live in British Columbia, Canada. I am 45, and my father, Donald Merle Alton, is a veteran of the 91st BG, 323d BS. He is still alive and lives here in Canada as well. I have studied the war all of my life, and have a pretty good background on most aspects of WWII. I do a little research on things concerning the 91st, the 8AF, and try to help others foster the cause of keeping the memory of those valiant men, and women, who fought in all services, to keep us free. I am the next generation after the vets, so it is a little easier for me to accept the veterans of both sides, Axis and Allied, who were all fighting for their respective countries. The time for hate, and revenge, is long gone. I like to think we can work worldwide to foster the greatness the preceding generation gave us as an example to follow. A lot of people gave the ultimate price for that end. Let's work hard to see they are not forgotten. Having said all that, this can be enjoyable and fun, as well. There is a lot of comraderie on the net, especially in the bomber community. I am proud to be associated with it, and all of you. Thanks for letting me be a part of this list. Gordy. _______________________________________________ 303rd-Talk mailing list 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-Talk From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:14:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:14:57 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Return to Bassingbourn Here is a story about my first visit to Bassingbourn, home of the 91st BG(H) during the war. Although the story is about Bassingbourn, it could equally appy to any of the heavy bomber bases of the 8th AF. I hope you enjoy it. Kevin Return to Bassingbourn by: Kevin M. Pearson - 1996 I recently visited Birmingham, England, on business and had the weekend free before returning to the States. I could have gone anywhere in Europe - London, Paris, Dublin - but where did I elect to go with my precious 48 hours? Bassingbourn, England, Station 121, home of the 91st Bombardment Group (Heavy) during World War II. Some Background: While writing my book, I met Louis LaHood, who was a pilot with the 91st BG(H), 322nd BS from January to May 1944. Lou was my mentor while writing my book, frequently calling and asking about the book's progress. Lou and I even had the opportunity of flying on a Confederate Air Force B-17, named Texas Raiders, in 1992. Needless to say, I formed a very close bond with Lou over the three years before his untimely death in 1993. Out of a profound respect for this man, I knew I had to visit Bassingbourn if I ever had the chance. On Sunday, 30 September, I was met in Cambridge by Peter Roberts, who is on the board of the East Anglian Aviation Society - the same group which has turned the Tower at Bassingbourn into a museum. I made contact with him through Ron Mackay, the chairman of the Friends of the Eighth - a group of dedicated English citizens who help Americans tour former 8th AF bomber and fighter bases. Peter spent an entire Sunday escorting me around the Bassingbourn/Cambridge area, and I can not thank him enough for his willingness to help this 40 (now 43) year old air historian. Bassingbourn is very much the way it was during the war. It is now the Depot for the Queens Regiment, a British army training unit. There is a very impressive memorial when you first enter the gate from the main highway running by the base - the A-14. There is a B-17 propeller, suspended at the same height as that on a B-17; a large bronze plaque, commemorating the activities of the 91st BG(H); and a park bench donated by the 91st Bomb Group Memorial Association. I saw the H-Block billeting quarters where Lou had slept; the C-type hangars where Lassie Come Home , Lou's B-17, had been repaired; the Nissen Hut where pilot briefings were conducted; the Officer's Mess; and the Tower Museum. I stood on the perimeter tract and runway where so many young men took off and never returned. I saw Wimpole Hall and the row of trees the pilots used as a reference marker to line up with the main runway. Most of the buildings I could not enter since the base is still an active military establishment. I could imagine heavily damaged bombers returning from a mission in the dark gray, low cloud cover which permeated the skies above the base. There is a famous picture of the Memphis Belle buzzing the tower before setting down after her last mission, and I could fully picture how that must have looked. We poked our heads into one of the three remaining C-type hangars, and, just for an instant, I thought I heard a Big Band playing Moonlight Serenade before a Saturday night dance crowd. I even had the distinct pleasure of seeing a reproduction of the "Grand Order of the Rigid Digit," an award made for those who goofed spectacularly - like raising the landing gear before leaving the runway! The award took the shape of a silver fist with the center finger upraised. Members of the Order were also awarded a replica with blue ribbons. The Tower Museum has many interesting artifacts dating back to the time when the RAF was in control of the base. The base had originally been an RAF aerodrome, established in 1938, and was used extensively by Spitfires and Hurricanes during the Battle of Britain. Later, British Wellington, Lancaster and Blenheim bombers used the base; and in early 1942, many bombers were dispatched from Bassingbourn for the first RAF 1,000 plane raid on Cologne. Col. Stanley Wray was the Commander of the 91st BG(H) when the group first arrived in England. The group was originally assigned to a base near Kimbolton, but the Kimbolton base could not withstand the weight of the 30 ton Flying Fortresses. Col. Wray, while traveling to London on the A-14, stopped in at Bassingbourn one day, took one look at the brick buildings and hard surfaced runway, and decided to reassign the 91st to Bassingbourn on a temporary basis - which lasted three and a half year! Station 121 at Bassingbourn was known as "The Country Club," nicknamed by the media in 1942 because of the excellent brick living quarters with central heat and the many paved sections of the base. Bassingbourn was filmed the most during the war by the media because it was close to London and had very fine accommodations for the press corps. Most U.S. air bases were equipped with Nissen Huts, coal stoves, less than modern kitchens and mud (and lots of it, brother). Bassingbourn and nearby Duxford were the airfields used to film the remake of Memphis Belle. As soon as I returned to the States, I watched again William Wylder's original film, Memphis Belle. The base has changed some over the years - more trees, less mud, new asphalt, etc. But other than that, it is very much the same. Peter Roberts, my guide for the day, is a very thorough historian and told me a great deal of information about the filming of the original Memphis Belle. Many of the scenes in the original movie were shot at several air bases in England, and the church featured during the opening segment of the original movie is not the church at Royston, a small village at the south end of the airfield. Rather the church is one from just outside Alconbury, another American air base. Many 91 BG(H) vets have watched the movie and wondered where the steeple is on the church at Royston. Wylder used 100+ cameras in the making of the film, and several scenes in the movie, especially the scenes showing the take-off for Wilhelmshaven, were not filmed at Bassingbourn. The day I visited Bassingbourn, there was an 8/10 cloud cover over the base - low hanging, dark clouds with a brisk wind from the North Sea - making the clouds sail gracefully and quickly over the airfield. Later in the day, it started to rain. Perfect weather for visiting the base and very typical of the weather conditions the crews had to face when taking off or returning to the base. The tower is almost identical to the tower used during the war - only a few modifications have been made. The glass dome was extended several feet after the war when the RAF again took control of the base, and Canberra bombers graced the field. The tower is now a museum and is operated by the East Anglia Aviation Society, a group of remarkable "chaps," who unselfishly donate time and money to a small but important part of history. The first floor of the Tower Museum has quite a collection of RAF memorabilia from the days before the 91st arrived. There is a spiral staircase leading to the second floor, which is filled with artifacts from the 91st BG(H) and the 355th FG at Steeple Morden. There is a separate room on the second floor set aside for memorabilia from the Memphis Belle. Pictures, flight gear, invitations, squadron insignias, models and other interesting 91st collectibles adorn this truly unique museum. During my tour through the museum, I stepped outside alone and walked up to the fence separating the base from the perimeter tract. A cold wind slapped me in the face. As I gazed about, I felt as though I had been thrown back in time. I could almost see 30 B-17 Flying Fortresses lined up on the perimeter tract with engines at idle speed, those massive Hamilton Standard props fanning the swirling mist from the North Sea. Just barely, I thought I could hear the thunderous roar of 120 Wright Cyclones. I turned around and looked at the C-hangars, and for a split second, could visualize the ground crews milling about, waiting for "their" birds to come home; "meat wagons" at the ready; and a mechanic up on a ladder working on the #3 engine of a Fort. I could almost smell the pungent aroma of mud, 100LL aviation fuel and burnt engine oil. I was brought back to reality when, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a British soldier holding an automatic weapon who was guarding the gate to the runway. Peter also spoke of a feud that had arisen between the 91st BG and the 78th FG at nearby Duxford towards the end of the war. It all started when "Redline," the base canine mascot of the 91st, was spirited away during a joint party on station. With Victory in Europe, the AAF soon got back to spit and polish parades, but the 91st mascot was still missing. During one such parade, the 78th FG personnel were all lined up for inspection at Duxford when a lone B-17 appeared, making a low pass with bomb-doors open, and from within, fell a half ton of horse manure. The 91st waited with bated breath for they knew the "fighter jocks" would not let the event pass without some form of retaliation. Sure enough, the next day, a lone P-51 flew over Bassingbourn and dropped a wreath by the Tower. Attached to the wreath was a card inscribed with the words, "In memory of your Commanding Officer who yesterday, over Duxford, fell from one of your aircraft!" After spending several hours in the Tower Museum and being regaled with many fine stories, Peter took me to Steeple Morden, home of the 355th Fighter Group We parked next to the 355 FG memorial just north of Litlington. As I approached the memorial, there were fresh flowers at its base, and I was again consumed in emotion and had to wipe away yet another tear. I still find it hard to believe the local residents, after 50 years, continue to place fresh flowers at the memorial. The memorial is made up of a wall, out of which protrudes a replica of the nose of a P-51 and propeller. Surrounding the nose section are squadron insignias. Peter and I walked down to what had been the main runway at Steeple Morden. On the way back, we walked through a farmer's field, which had been the 355th FG's technical site. We found pieces of what I would like to believe was an airplane - a lead shielded electrical cable; a section of old, decayed rubber tubing; and a piece of aluminum strapping, joined together by a bucked rivet. Peter Roberts said every year when the farmer plows the field, new debris is found. Several sections of the runway are still intact. A large haystack sits on the east-end of the remaining concrete runway. Peter tells of a glowing light which emanates from a creek at night at the western end of the runway. Story has it the light is the ghost of a young American who inadvertently walked into a spinning propeller. Peter tells this story with a straight face and very somber voice. About 4 p.m. Sunday afternoon, Peter took me to Madingley Cemetery just outside Cambridge. This is a U.S. Cemetery for American servicemen killed in action. 3,811 American servicemen are buried here, and the names of 5,125 are properly enshrined on a 472 foot granite wall. As we began walking towards the Chapel, it started to drizzle. The Chapel - well - words can not properly describe. The entire day I was visiting Bassingbourn, Cambridge, Litlington, Steeple Morden and Royston, I had the unmistakable feeling Lou LaHood was right there by my side. I somehow felt Lou was seeing his old base again through my eyes. I returned to Bassingbourn for you, Lou. From ray.cossey@virgin.net Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:23:33 +0100 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:23:33 +0100 From: ray cossey ray.cossey@virgin.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings from the 'Old Country' Hi Gary Thank you for posting me onto the 303rd Talk facility. What a great idea for allowing all those with a love of the 303rd BG to keep in touch with each other and exchange thoughts and experiences. At 61 I'm far too young to have been actively involved in war service, although as a young boy in England I lived through it all, including the blitz on our cities and homes. My dad was a civilian worker on an 8th Air Force base, Hethel in Norfolk; one of the many 2nd Air Division bases which flew B-24's. In 1979 I attended one of the early 303rd veterans reunions at Dayton, Ohio and, over the years since, have put in an appearance at several in the States and all four over here in England. Indeed I organized the first three held over here in the middle 80's and early 90's. This year I was able to attend, with my wife Theresa, the UK 'final mission' in Cambridge, including the dedication of the 303rd Memorial at the old base at Molesworth. It was also my honour and privilege to make the address of thanks to the 303rd BG, and the other USAAF Groups attending, at the Remembrance Service at the United States War Cemetery at Madingly. At the Washington reunion in 1983 I was humbled, and proud, to have been made an honorary member of the 303rd which was, I was told, in recognition of my work over here, on behalf of the 303rd. I can assure all concerned with our Association that it has been a pleasure to serve the 303rd BG as a heartfelt 'thank you' for all you did for us over here in Great Britain all those many years ago. We would have undoubtedly gone under, but for the sacrifices made by your great country and its servicemen and women. I hope if any 303rders are ever over in the UK at anytime you'll give me a call. My telephone/fax number is (44) 1603 720980 and my address is 73 Blofield Corner Road, Little Plumstead, Norwich, Norfolk, NR13 5HU, England. Theresa and I will be delighted to hear from you and perhaps we can arrange to meet with you. Yours in gratitude Ray Cossey Honorary Member From EISENCOL@aol.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:33:11 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:33:11 EDT From: EISENCOL@aol.com EISENCOL@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Greetings from the 'Old Country' THANKS RAY AND TERESA... NEXT TIME OVER. WE'LL GET TOGETHER. BEST.... BILL EISENHART From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:41:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:41:09 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Book Reviews - Under the Bombs/War of the Rats Under the Bombs I just finished a book called Under the Bombs, a detailed account of what it was like to live in Germany during the strategic bombing offensive. This is an excellent book and a must read for veterans and serious historians. Under the Bombs details what life was like for German civilians and also chronicals efforts made by the Nazi regime to curtail the Allied efforts and deal with shortages from food to war materials. The author, Eric Beck, is a professor of history at Florida State University, and has spent a considerable amount of time in Germany researching archival records. His account is very detailed and informative. War of the Rats This book is a semi historical account of the two snipers that square off in Stalingrad. Based on historical fact, the author writes a story about the Russian sniper who had 100+ kills and is written up in the Russian military newspaper. When the Germans learn this sniper is operating in Stalingrad, they sent their best sniper to hunt the Russian. I highly recommend this book for those interested in the living condions of the Russians and Germans in Stalingrad. It is a quick and easy read that will have you sitting on pins and needles. From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:30:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:30:16 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America, America > Subject: FW: America: The Good Neighbor > > > This, from a Canadian newspaper and is worth sharing. > > America: The Good Neighbor > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a > remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a > Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his > remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the > most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the > earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were > lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of > dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is > today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United > States. > > When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the > Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and > swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that > hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were > flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars > into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are > writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the > erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any > other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo > Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't > they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly > American Planes? > > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman > on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. > > You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. > > You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - > not once, but several times - and safely home again. > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the > store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are > not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of > them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down > through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the > Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody > loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of > other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone > else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside > help even during the San Francisco earthquake. > > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned > tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this > thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb > their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I > hope Canada is not one of those." > > Stand proud, Americans > > This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding > the United States. It is nice that one man realizes it, I only > wish that the rest of the world would realize it. We are always > blamed for everything, and never even get a thank you for the things > we do. > > I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as > you can and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their > friends until this letter is sent to every person on the web. > I am just a single American that has read this, > I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON > > > > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- BusinessWeekani.gif ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From lstoner@gvi.net Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:10:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:10:21 -0500 From: lancestoner lstoner@gvi.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] Super Job by Gary This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi to all 303rd BGA(H), Gary has done an awsome job with the talk forum as he does in all things = 303rd. In reply to his hope to fly in a 17, I was lucky enough to fly for 30 = minutes in the daylight with no one shooting at me on the ALUMINUM = OVERCAST. I will try to relate my feelings at the reunion to all. Will see Gary, Susan and ALL in San Diego. Thanks again Gary. Lance Stoner Relative Representative 303rd BGA(H) ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi to all 303rd BGA(H),
 
Gary has done an awsome job with the = talk forum=20 as he does in all things 303rd.
 
In reply to his hope to fly in a 17, = I was lucky=20 enough to fly for 30 minutes in the daylight with no one shooting at me = on the=20 ALUMINUM OVERCAST. I will try to relate my feelings at  the reunion = to=20 all.
 
Will see Gary, Susan and ALL in San=20 Diego.
 
Thanks again Gary.
 
Lance Stoner
Relative Representative 303rd=20 BGA(H)
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0-- From glm@xmission.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:09:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:09:48 -0700 From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Super Job by Gary Lance, Thanks for the comments. I live midway between SLC International airport and SLC Airport #2, almost on the outer marker for SLC. For several years the CAF would have an airshow at Airport #2 each year and would bring in WWII planes. SLC International changed the rules on their airspace, so the airshows pretty much stopped about 10 years ago. I saw Sentimental Journey several times during that time. Each morning of the airshow, they would have a "dawn partol" with the B-17, a B-25 and 6 or 8 T-6s flying formation right over my house. We could hear the radial engines coming and we'd all run outside and watch. What a sound! It was like a magnet. I'd jump in the car and follow them back to the airport and spend the day there. Someday..... We look forward to seeing you ALL in San Diego. - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird From IBSPEC@aol.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:29:34 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:29:34 EDT From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Intros, Gordy Alton yup from this virginian. ibspec@aol.com From rhardin@pimacc.pima.edu Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:43:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:43:37 -0700 From: Rick Hardin rhardin@pimacc.pima.edu Subject: [303rd-Talk] [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit   --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Received: from aello.DCO.PIMA.EDU by pimacc.pima.edu (PMDF V4.3-7 #16431) id <01JSGNAC5OR498BR1C@pimacc.pima.edu>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:23:06 -0700 Received: from aello.dco.pima.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aello.dco.pima.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11346 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by aello.dco.pima.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11321 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [204.228.149.14] (helo=XMission) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 13JlLp-0006MG-00 for rhardin@pimacc.pima.edu; Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:21:34 -0600 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:20:43 -0700 From: Gary Moncur Subject: Re: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode) In-reply-to: <39875997.727B5448@pimacc.pima.edu> To: Rick Hardin Reply-to: glm@xmission.com Message-id: <398706EB.6795.14B08DD@localhost> Organization: 303rd BGA MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ)" Priority: normal X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ****************** Virus Scan Message (on aello.dco.pima.edu) noname is scanned and no virus found ( ) ********************************************************* --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rick, You sent this to the admin address rather than 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com so it didn't make it to the list. Please resend it to the list. Glad you're here! > Hello, > > My name is T.H. "Rick" Hardin III and I am the son of Tom Hardin who > was a B-17 pilot during W.W.II.  I am a pilot for the Pima County > Sheriff's Office in Tucson, AZ where my primary duty is to transport > prisoners on nationwide fugitive extradition warrants.  I am also > adjunct faculty for the Public Safety and Emergency Services Institute > at Pima Community College. > > Thanks and keep up the good work. > > Rick Hardin > > 303rd-talk-admin@303rdbga.com wrote: > > > Welcome to the 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com mailing list! We're glad you > > joined. Please send a short message and introduce yourself. > > > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > > >   303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > > >   http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > > > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch > > to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > > subscription page at: > > > >   > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/options/303rd-talk/rhardin@pimacc.pi > > ma.edu > > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message > > to: > > > >   303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > > > You must know your password to change your options (including > > changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is: > > > >   Hardin4 > > > > If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly > > reminder telling you what all your 303rdBGA.com mailing list > > passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options.  There > > is also a button on your options page that will email your current > > password to you. > > > > You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of > > the Web page noted above. > > > - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ)-- --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w)-- From IBSPEC@aol.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:01:22 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:01:22 EDT From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] rick hardin. noting pima college. have a friend at that college who moved from univ. of richmon ,va. college to that school couple years ago ,involved with human resources people. chjeers. ibspec@aol.com From CDouglasN@aol.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:16:41 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:16:41 EDT From: CDouglasN@aol.com CDouglasN@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America, America I'd just like to let everyone know of an upcoming B-17 flight simulator due to release sometime between fall and xmas of this year. Its called "B-17 Flying Fortress II, The Mighty Eighth" Its being published by Hasbro Interactive and developed by Wayward Design Studios in Bristol, UK. It looks to be an amazing sim, as crew management is the key to success. For once a sim is coming out that is about the crew and not just the machine. Here is a link to the fan site called Bombs Away. It has all the info you could ever want to know, including screenshots and movies of the game in action. Plus, the developers tend to lurk around in the forums answering questions about the game and things like that. http://www.bombs-away.net Here is a link to the official game site. Although it is rather sparse, and seems to be a work in progress, it does have a basic rundown of the features planning to be included with the game. http://www.b17flyingfortress.com This game looks to be a winner. Check it out! Charles From gordy@saltspring.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:38:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:38:15 -0700 From: Gordon Alton gordy@saltspring.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Vox Pop Hello 303rd, This is my first post, other than my intro. I do a little plane research, as you'll find out, and here is an inquiry I would like a little help with. I am trying to nail down some facts on a few different planes, and here is one, or two, of them. The plane is called "Vox Pop". There were a couple of planes by this name, and a couple with a ' II ' after them. The ones I am concerned with flew with the 94BG, the 91BG, and the 303BG. The first plane is serial #42-37767. It was assigned to the 332nd BS of the 94th BG on the 4th of Oct., 1943. It was transferred to the 401st BS of the 91st BG on the 5th of Nov., 1943. This plane crash landed at Cambridge on the 20th of Dec., 1943. The MACR is 1886. The second plane is serial #43-38767. It was assigned to the 332nd BS of the 94th BG on the 4th of Oct., 1944. It was transferred to the 359th BS of the 303rd BG on the 23 of Nov., 1944. It went missing in action over Hamburg on the 20th of Mar, 1945. Pilot may have been Moors, hit by enemy aircraft, 5 KIA, 3 POW. MACR 13570. If anyone has any more info on these planes, please post it here, or to me at gordy@saltspring.com . I will let the talk list in on any findings. These planes were sometimes mixed up and taken for each other, ser. #s were swapped, dates mixed up, etc. I just want to clear up the records, for myself and the groups involved. Thanks, Gordy. From Hydeho13@aol.com Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:40:55 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:40:55 EDT From: Hydeho13@aol.com Hydeho13@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Hi Fellas: From warrenburke@worldnet.att.net Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:26:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:26:54 -0500 From: JOHN W. FORD warrenburke@worldnet.att.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] ORGINAL CADRE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFFC5B.6A576880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MORTON MOON - WAS YOU IN THE ORGINAL CADRE FROM THE 43RD BOMB GP, 64TH = BOMB SQ. THAT FORMED THE 359TH BOMB SQ. AT BOISE IN JAN, 1942. BUFORD = PAFFORD, MARTIN BRUCHER, MARTIN YANIGA, FLETCHER HELTON, RAYMOND DUSMAN = ARE THE ONES I REMEMBER. THEY WERE ABOUT 14 OF US IN THAT CADRE THAT = FORMED THE 359TH. IF YOU WERE, DO YOU REMEMBER IN OTHER NAMES. = JOHN FORD = 359TH REPRE. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFFC5B.6A576880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MORTON MOON - WAS YOU IN THE ORGINAL CADRE FROM THE = 43RD BOMB=20 GP, 64TH BOMB SQ. THAT FORMED THE 359TH BOMB SQ. AT BOISE IN JAN, = 1942. =20 BUFORD PAFFORD, MARTIN BRUCHER, MARTIN YANIGA, FLETCHER HELTON, RAYMOND = DUSMAN=20 ARE THE ONES I REMEMBER.  THEY WERE ABOUT 14 OF US IN THAT CADRE = THAT=20 FORMED THE 359TH.  IF YOU WERE, DO YOU REMEMBER IN OTHER=20 NAMES.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 JOHN FORD
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 359TH REPRE.
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;        =20
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BFFC5B.6A576880-- From ray.cossey@virgin.net Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:52:25 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:52:25 +0100 From: ray cossey ray.cossey@virgin.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] America America This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFFCAA.6AC99960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a broadcast made = by a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair. Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take issue = with him concerning that which was totally wrong and the acceptance of = which would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression of = the British and their attitude towards their responsibilities. Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 of = possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair = as it was almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did = eventually pay back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it = took us many decades to do so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long = years of war. Sinclair states that the British, in common with other = countries, has not paid back even the interest on the loans extended to = them by the USA. In respect of my country, Great Britain, he is wrong = and he would never be able to make such a statement today. =20 You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made many = years ago and is a long, long way out of date. I thought I'd just put = the record straight as I would hate my many American friends to think = badly of my country, especially after all the suffering we went through = together. Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward the text of = Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, please = don't forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth.=20 Regards Ray Cossey Honorary Member - 303rd BG Assoc. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFFCAA.6AC99960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a broadcast = made by=20 a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair.
 
Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take = issue with=20 him concerning that  which was totally wrong and the acceptance of = which=20 would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression of the = British=20 and their attitude towards their responsibilities.
 
Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 = of =20 possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair = as it was=20 almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did = eventually pay=20 back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it took us many = decades to do=20 so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long years of war.  Sinclair = states=20 that the British, in common with other countries, has not paid back even = the=20 interest on the loans extended to them by the USA. In respect of my = country,=20 Great Britain, he is wrong and he would never be able to make such a = statement=20 today. 
 
You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made = many years=20 ago and is a long, long way out of date.  I thought I'd just put = the record=20 straight as I would hate my many American friends to think badly of my = country,=20 especially after all the suffering we went through together.
 
Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward = the text=20 of Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, please = don't=20 forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth. =
 
Regards
 
Ray Cossey
Honorary Member - 303rd BG Assoc.
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFFCAA.6AC99960-- From ray.cossey@virgin.net Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:58:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:58:27 +0100 From: ray cossey ray.cossey@virgin.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] Fw: America America This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFFCAB.42346380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a broadcast made = by a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair. Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take issue = with him concerning that which was totally wrong and the acceptance of = which would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression of = the British and their attitude towards their responsibilities. Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 of = possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair = as it was almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did = eventually pay back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it = took us many decades to do so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long = years of war. Sinclair states that the British, in common with other = countries, has not paid back even the interest on the loans extended to = them by the USA. In respect of my country, Great Britain, he is wrong = and he would never be able to make such a statement today. =20 You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made many = years ago and is a long, long way out of date. I thought I'd just put = the record straight as I would hate my many American friends to think = badly of my country, especially after all the suffering we went through = together. Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward the text of = Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, please = don't forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth.=20 =20 Regards Ray Cossey Honorary Member - 303rd BG Assoc. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFFCAB.42346380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 


 
K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a broadcast = made by=20 a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair.
 
Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take = issue with=20 him concerning that  which was totally wrong and the acceptance of = which=20 would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression of the = British=20 and their attitude towards their responsibilities.
 
Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 = of =20 possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair = as it was=20 almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did = eventually pay=20 back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it took us many = decades to do=20 so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long years of war.  Sinclair = states=20 that the British, in common with other countries, has not paid back even = the=20 interest on the loans extended to them by the USA. In respect of my = country,=20 Great Britain, he is wrong and he would never be able to make such a = statement=20 today. 
 
You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made = many years=20 ago and is a long, long way out of date.  I thought I'd just put = the record=20 straight as I would hate my many American friends to think badly of my = country,=20 especially after all the suffering we went through together.
 
Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward = the text=20 of Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, please = don't=20 forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth. =
 
Regards
 
Ray Cossey
Honorary Member - 303rd BG Assoc.
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BFFCAB.42346380-- From IBSPEC@aol.com Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:06:43 EDT Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:06:43 EDT From: IBSPEC@aol.com IBSPEC@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America America agreed ,it was given long years ago.spec From kpearson@saintjoseph.com Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:14:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:14:34 -0500 From: kpearson@saintjoseph.com kpearson@saintjoseph.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America America This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFFC82.E9FA3460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ray!  Thanks for setting the recod straight!  So many countries are basing America these days, especially the French and I know you can appreciate that, that I thought some of the veterans might enjoy what Sinclair wrote.  In no way was my message intended to offend you or the British - YOU WERE OUR ALLIES AND STILL ARE!!  Sorry to have ruffled your fathers!  It was not my intent. Respectfully, Kevin M. Pearson -----Original Message----- From: 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On Behalf Of ray cossey Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:03 PM To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America America K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a broadcast made by a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair.   Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take issue with him concerning that  which was totally wrong and the acceptance of which would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression of the British and their attitude towards their responsibilities.   Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 of  possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair as it was almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did eventually pay back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it took us many decades to do so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long years of war.  Sinclair states that the British, in common with other countries, has not paid back even the interest on the loans extended to them by the USA. In respect of my country, Great Britain, he is wrong and he would never be able to make such a statement today.    You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made many years ago and is a long, long way out of date.  I thought I'd just put the record straight as I would hate my many American friends to think badly of my country, especially after all the suffering we went through together.   Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward the text of Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, please don't forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth.   Regards   Ray Cossey Honorary Member - 303rd BG Assoc. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFFC82.E9FA3460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Ray!  Thanks for setting the recod straight!  So many = countries are=20 basing America these days, especially the French and I know you can = appreciate=20 that, that I thought some of the veterans might enjoy what Sinclair = wrote. =20 In no way was my message intended to offend you or the British - YOU = WERE OUR=20 ALLIES AND STILL ARE!!  Sorry to have ruffled your fathers!  = It was=20 not my intent.
Respectfully,
Kevin=20 M. Pearson
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com = [mailto:303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com]On=20 Behalf Of ray cossey
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 = 12:03=20 PM
To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com
Subject: = [303rd-Talk]=20 America America

K Pearson, in his e-mail of 1 August, gave the text of a = broadcast made=20 by a Canadian journalist called Gordon Sinclair.
 
Whilst I agree with most of what Mr Sinclair states, I must take = issue=20 with him concerning that  which was totally wrong and the = acceptance of=20 which would leave American listeners with a totally wrong impression = of the=20 British and their attitude towards their responsibilities.
 
Yes, America did make loans to the British during World War 2 = of =20 possibly hundreds of millions of dollars (hardly billions, Mr Sinclair = as it=20 was almost 60 years ago), but I can assure Mr Sinclair that we did = eventually=20 pay back the agreed portion of these loans. Of course, it took us many = decades=20 to do so, as we got back on our feet after 6 long years of war.  = Sinclair=20 states that the British, in common with other countries, has not paid = back=20 even the interest on the loans extended to them by the USA. In respect = of my=20 country, Great Britain, he is wrong and he would never be able to make = such a=20 statement today. 
 
You see, the fact of the matter is that this broadcast was made = many=20 years ago and is a long, long way out of date.  I thought I'd = just put=20 the record straight as I would hate my many American friends to think = badly of=20 my country, especially after all the suffering we went through = together.
 
Incidentally if, as K Pearson properly suggests, you forward = the text=20 of Sinclair's broadcast to those of your friends on the internet, = please don't=20 forget to add my response above, so as to balance out the truth. =
 
Regards
 
Ray Cossey
Honorary Member - 303rd BG = Assoc.
------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFFC82.E9FA3460-- From armfield@dockpoint.net Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:37:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:37:32 -0400 From: John and Anne armfield@dockpoint.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] Introduction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFFCA8.56BB8B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all John Armfield here. Proud member 303rd BGA.... 360th Sqdn. Pilot. Assigned Molesworth Nov.44 thru mid=20 April 45. Attended and thoroughly enjoyed=20 'Return To Molesworth 2000"=20 Fantastic website,Gary. Many thanks. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFFCA8.56BB8B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all
John Armfield here. Proud member 303rd = BGA....
360th Sqdn. Pilot. Assigned Molesworth Nov.44 = thru mid=20
April 45.  Attended and thoroughly enjoyed =
'Return To Molesworth 2000"
Fantastic  website,Gary. Many = thanks.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFFCA8.56BB8B60-- From EISENCOL@aol.com Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:12:43 EDT Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:12:43 EDT From: EISENCOL@aol.com EISENCOL@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] America America WELL SAID !!!!!!! BILL E From glm@xxxx.com Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:52:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:52:02 -0700 From: Gary Moncur glm@xxxx.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] test please ignore.... test - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird From MSargeM@aol.com Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:42:03 EDT Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:42:03 EDT From: MSargeM@aol.com MSargeM@aol.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #5 - 13 msgs HI John Ford. I have an original set of ordes Sqdn Order No. 21. Dtd 6 July 1943. If this would help you I can send you a copy. Some Names are: Sid Guthrie, Bryant Mintz, Buford Pafford, Msgt Peterson, Victor Cozza, Lester HansenClarence Kennison and many others are on this list. Some of the orginal ones were sent to England in a group made up out of the 303rd. They were sent to Polebrook and the to Corsica where the were caught on the ground and were pretty well beaten up. Anyway nice to hear from you and let me know if you want the orders. Mort Moon From glm@xmission.com Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:28:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:28:33 -0700 From: Gary Moncur glm@xmission.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] test - Bud Klint Bud, If you get this, please reply to the message. - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association http://www.303rdBGA.com http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird From Theklints@email.msn.com Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:31:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:31:53 -0500 From: Wilbur Klint Theklints@email.msn.com Subject: [303rd-Talk] Signing on This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFD92.3E2492A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I am Wilbur "Bud" Klint, Pilot, 427BS, Molesworth, Aug. '43 - Mar. > '44. Former Editor Hell's Angels Newsletter and past Pres. 303rd BGA. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFD92.3E2492A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> I am Wilbur "Bud" Klint, Pilot, = 427BS,=20 Molesworth, Aug. '43 - Mar.
> '44.  Former Editor Hell's = Angels=20 Newsletter and past Pres. 303rd BGA.
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFD92.3E2492A0-- From palidin@netzero.net Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:32:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 22:32:29 -0400 From: Lloyd J H Grant palidin@netzero.net Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: 303rd-Talk digest, Vol 1 #5 - 13 msgs My name is Lloyd Grant. I am an associate member of the 303rd BG. My dad flew as a navigator in the 427th SQ. His original plane was "Joe BTFSPLK II" commanded by Don Stockton. Thank you Gary and all involved for this wonderful venue of informtion and communication. Certainly a labour of love, and definately a job well done. I am proud of my association with the group and thankful for the courtesy, understanding , and respect that you all have given unselfishly. Continued best wishes, Lloyd. 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com wrote: > Send 303rd-Talk mailing list submissions to > 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 303rd-talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 303rd-talk-admin@303rdBGA.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 303rd-Talk digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Super Job by Gary (lancestoner) > 2. Re: Super Job by Gary (Gary Moncur) > 3. Re: Intros, Gordy Alton (IBSPEC@aol.com) > 4. [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] (Rick Hardin) > 5. Re: [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] (IBSPEC@aol.com) > 6. Re: America, America (CDouglasN@aol.com) > 7. Vox Pop (Gordon Alton) > 8. Re: Hi Fellas: (Hydeho13@aol.com) > 9. ORGINAL CADRE (JOHN W. FORD) > 10. America America (ray cossey) > 11. Fw: America America (ray cossey) > 12. Re: America America (IBSPEC@aol.com) > 13. RE: America America (kpearson@saintjoseph.com) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "lancestoner" > To: <303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com> > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:10:21 -0500 > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0" > Reply-To: 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com > Subject: [303rd-Talk] Super Job by Gary > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi to all 303rd BGA(H), > > Gary has done an awsome job with the talk forum as he does in all things = > 303rd. > > In reply to his hope to fly in a 17, I was lucky enough to fly for 30 = > minutes in the daylight with no one shooting at me on the ALUMINUM = > OVERCAST. I will try to relate my feelings at the reunion to all. > > Will see Gary, Susan and ALL in San Diego. > > Thanks again Gary. > > Lance Stoner > Relative Representative 303rd BGA(H) > > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
Hi to all 303rd BGA(H),
>
 
>
Gary has done an awsome job with the = > talk forum=20 > as he does in all things 303rd.
>
 
>
In reply to his hope to fly in a 17, = > I was lucky=20 > enough to fly for 30 minutes in the daylight with no one shooting at me = > on the=20 > ALUMINUM OVERCAST. I will try to relate my feelings at  the reunion = > to=20 > all.
>
 
>
Will see Gary, Susan and ALL in San=20 > Diego.
>
 
>
Thanks again Gary.
>
 
>
Lance Stoner
>
Relative Representative 303rd=20 > BGA(H)
> > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFFBB1.76EBA0C0-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Gary Moncur" > Organization: 303rd BGA > To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:09:48 -0700 > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Super Job by Gary > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > Lance, > Thanks for the comments. I live midway between SLC International > airport and SLC Airport #2, almost on the outer marker for SLC. > For several years the CAF would have an airshow at Airport #2 > each year and would bring in WWII planes. SLC International > changed the rules on their airspace, so the airshows pretty much > stopped about 10 years ago. I saw Sentimental Journey several > times during that time. Each morning of the airshow, they would > have a "dawn partol" with the B-17, a B-25 and 6 or 8 T-6s flying > formation right over my house. We could hear the radial engines > coming and we'd all run outside and watch. > What a sound! It was like a magnet. I'd jump in the car and follow > them back to the airport and spend the day there. > > Someday..... > > We look forward to seeing you ALL in San Diego. > > - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster > 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: IBSPEC@aol.com > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:29:34 EDT > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] Intros, Gordy Alton > To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > yup from this virginian. ibspec@aol.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:43:37 -0700 > From: Rick Hardin > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > Subject: [303rd-Talk] [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] > > --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined > Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > > > > --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w) > MIME-version: 1.0 > Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 > Content-Disposition: inline > > Return-path: > Received: from aello.DCO.PIMA.EDU by pimacc.pima.edu (PMDF V4.3-7 #16431) > id <01JSGNAC5OR498BR1C@pimacc.pima.edu>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:23:06 -0700 > Received: from aello.dco.pima.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by aello.dco.pima.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11346 for > ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:22:32 -0700 (MST) > Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) > by aello.dco.pima.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11321 for > ; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:21:54 -0700 (MST) > Received: from [204.228.149.14] (helo=XMission) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp > (Exim 3.03 #3) id 13JlLp-0006MG-00 for rhardin@pimacc.pima.edu; Tue, > 01 Aug 2000 17:21:34 -0600 > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:20:43 -0700 > From: Gary Moncur > Subject: Re: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode) > In-reply-to: <39875997.727B5448@pimacc.pima.edu> > To: Rick Hardin > Reply-to: glm@xmission.com > Message-id: <398706EB.6795.14B08DD@localhost> > Organization: 303rd BGA > MIME-version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) > Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ)" > Priority: normal > X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 > > --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > ****************** Virus Scan Message (on aello.dco.pima.edu) > > noname is scanned and no virus found ( ) > ********************************************************* > > --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Rick, > You sent this to the admin address rather than > 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com so it didn't make it to the list. Please > resend it to the list. > > Glad you're here! > > > Hello, > > > > My name is T.H. "Rick" Hardin III and I am the son of Tom Hardin who > > was a B-17 pilot during W.W.II. I am a pilot for the Pima County > > Sheriff's Office in Tucson, AZ where my primary duty is to transport > > prisoners on nationwide fugitive extradition warrants. I am also > > adjunct faculty for the Public Safety and Emergency Services Institute > > at Pima Community College. > > > > Thanks and keep up the good work. > > > > Rick Hardin > > > > 303rd-talk-admin@303rdbga.com wrote: > > > > > Welcome to the 303rd-Talk@303rdBGA.com mailing list! We're glad you > > > joined. Please send a short message and introduce yourself. > > > > > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > > > > > 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > > > > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk > > > > > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch > > > to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > > > subscription page at: > > > > > > > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/options/303rd-talk/rhardin@pimacc.pi > > > ma.edu > > > > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message > > > to: > > > > > > 303rd-Talk-request@303rdBGA.com > > > > > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > > > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > > > > > You must know your password to change your options (including > > > changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > > > > > Hardin4 > > > > > > If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly > > > reminder telling you what all your 303rdBGA.com mailing list > > > passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There > > > is also a button on your options page that will email your current > > > password to you. > > > > > > You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of > > > the Web page noted above. > > > > > > > > - Gary -SLC, UT- Webmaster > 303rd Bomb Group(H) Association > http://www.303rdBGA.com > http://www.303rdBGA.com/thunderbird > > --Boundary (ID uezuahBNSrd6YAwCsnnzrQ)-- > > --Boundary (ID rfH0QAHk8dqHtG1rwFNp2w)-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: IBSPEC@aol.com > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:01:22 EDT > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] [Fwd: Welcome to the "303rd-Talk" mailing list (Digest mode)] > To: 303rd-talk@303rdbga.com > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > rick hardin. noting pima college. have a friend at that college who moved > from univ. of richmon ,va. college to that school couple years ago ,involved > with human resources people. chjeers. ibspec@aol.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: CDouglasN@aol.com > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:16:41 EDT > Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] America, America > To: 303rd-Talk@303rdbga.com > Reply-To: 303rd-talk@303rdBGA.com > > I'd just like to let everyone know of an upcoming B-17 flight simulator due > to release sometime between fall and xmas of this year. Its called "B-17 > Flying Fortress II, The Mighty Eighth" Its being published by Hasbro